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Message
re: Zach Lowe splashes a little cold water on Pels
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:16 am to whatiknowsofar
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:16 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
The Lakers were 21st in 3pt shooting last year.
The Warriors broke the perception of how you can win a title to a lot of these nba guys now, and make you think you need 4-5 guys that can shoot 40% from 3 to win.
Thank you. So many people now think you need space and pace. And it didn't help that we had that coach who relied on that.
Different team. Different coach. Different offense. Different way to win.
Also trying to figure out where we lost 3 pt shooting from last year. Jrue and Bledsoe have been extremely close the last few years and on their career.
Anyone else we may have lost didn't take that many anyway. And Lewis was pretty good at it.
This post was edited on 12/8/20 at 8:25 am
1
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:25 am to bonethug0180
quote:
Different team. Different coach. Different offense. Different way to win.
THANK YOU. I'm so worried about 3pt shooting when Zion is one of the most efficient scoring forwards in the league IN YEAR ONE. BI and Zion in the pnr should be absolutely lethal if we can keep JJ out there.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:38 am to whatiknowsofar
The Lakers comparison is ludicrous.
First of all, that team has two top 5 players, including one of the two greatest players in basketball history. BI and Zion aren't there yet.
Second, I don't think, personally, that that team wins it all in a normal non-bubble year.
Shooting is necessary. No one said we have to be the Warriors. But on paper, this is a poor 3 point shooting team. When you have two guys down low that live 3 feet from the basket, you do need some shooting, and ours is suspect. That doesn't mean we won't do it and do well at it, this is simply an on paper thing going into the season.
First of all, that team has two top 5 players, including one of the two greatest players in basketball history. BI and Zion aren't there yet.
Second, I don't think, personally, that that team wins it all in a normal non-bubble year.
Shooting is necessary. No one said we have to be the Warriors. But on paper, this is a poor 3 point shooting team. When you have two guys down low that live 3 feet from the basket, you do need some shooting, and ours is suspect. That doesn't mean we won't do it and do well at it, this is simply an on paper thing going into the season.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:44 am to Fun Bunch
Part of spacing is having the other team commit to someone defending the guy by the basket.
You don't need 5 guys at the 3 pt line. In fact 3 is more than enough. 2 guys inside, someone drives the open gap and forces a collapse that's 2 options still outside to choose from, and only 1 guy can shoot the ball.
You don't need 5 guys at the 3 pt line. In fact 3 is more than enough. 2 guys inside, someone drives the open gap and forces a collapse that's 2 options still outside to choose from, and only 1 guy can shoot the ball.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:45 am to Fun Bunch
It's fine. We all need to come back down to earth occasionally and remain grounded. Lowe's concerns are valid. I'm expecting the bench to come in and prove people wrong as well as leaps and bounds in improvement on D, FT's, and interior offense communication/toughness.
Let's flap sons.
Let's flap sons.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:52 am to Fun Bunch
Time will tell, but I thought Zach Lowe was a little harsh in his assessment of the roster. Everyone in the national media is focused on the shooting in the starting 5, which is fair (although I think they see Lonzo’s shooting last year as a mirage, which might be unfair). But that neglects a couple of things. Shooting is not the only thing that spaces the floor. Look at Jokic. He spaces the floor without shooting because he can operate as a passing big at the top of the key and the elbow. Adams is not the passer that Jokic is, but I think he will operate outside the lane quite a bit. He had a 13.2% AST% last season, which is more than double his previous career high of 6.6%. Obviously we will see him outside the lane as a screener frequently, but he has become proficient in dribble handoff situations as well.
Focusing on the shooting of the starting 5 also neglects that our 6th man is one of the best shooters in the league, and that our bench is full of capable shooters. You can’t leave Melli open. Hart is capable of hitting the 3 at a decent clip. Gabriel made 40% of his 3s on 3 attempts/game his last year in college, and then shot over 40% from 3 last year in Portland in both the regular season and playoffs.
I also think Lowe was a little harsh on the bench. I trust Melli to play his role. I know that some nights his shot isn’t falling, but he plays hard on defense and doesn’t make a ton of mistakes when he’s on the floor. Portland trusted Gabriel enough to start him in 2 playoff games last year. The depth behind BI is a valid concern, but if BI plays 34 minutes/game (his average over the past 3 seasons), you can play Hart, Zion, NAW, Gabriel for the remaining 14 minutes against the other team’s second unit and be OK.
I think Zach Lowe is correct that shooting and depth are not huge strengths, but I think his concerns are overblown. To me the biggest factors to watch in terms of success this season are how quickly the team can coalesce with new coaching and personnel, the continued growth of BI and Zion, and whether the “culture” changes. This team has a history of beating itself with inconsistent effort and unforced mistakes. The talent is there, and if we stop beating ourselves, I think we will see success despite the shooting and depth concerns.
Focusing on the shooting of the starting 5 also neglects that our 6th man is one of the best shooters in the league, and that our bench is full of capable shooters. You can’t leave Melli open. Hart is capable of hitting the 3 at a decent clip. Gabriel made 40% of his 3s on 3 attempts/game his last year in college, and then shot over 40% from 3 last year in Portland in both the regular season and playoffs.
I also think Lowe was a little harsh on the bench. I trust Melli to play his role. I know that some nights his shot isn’t falling, but he plays hard on defense and doesn’t make a ton of mistakes when he’s on the floor. Portland trusted Gabriel enough to start him in 2 playoff games last year. The depth behind BI is a valid concern, but if BI plays 34 minutes/game (his average over the past 3 seasons), you can play Hart, Zion, NAW, Gabriel for the remaining 14 minutes against the other team’s second unit and be OK.
I think Zach Lowe is correct that shooting and depth are not huge strengths, but I think his concerns are overblown. To me the biggest factors to watch in terms of success this season are how quickly the team can coalesce with new coaching and personnel, the continued growth of BI and Zion, and whether the “culture” changes. This team has a history of beating itself with inconsistent effort and unforced mistakes. The talent is there, and if we stop beating ourselves, I think we will see success despite the shooting and depth concerns.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:56 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
on paper, this is a poor 3 point shooting team.
On paper this is more or less the same team as last year that was a #7 in 3 point attempts and percentage and #5 in makes. Here are your top 3 point shooters from last season
Player 3PA 3P%
JJ 6.6 45.3%
Lonzo 6.3 37.5%
Ingram 6.2 39.1%
Jrue 5.7 35.3%
Hart 5.4 34.2%
Melli 3.4 33.5%
Moore 3.0 37.7%
NAW 2.8 34.6%
Kenrich 2.5 25.8%
Frank 2.4 32.6%
I get how you can say certain lineups lack shooting, and I even understand not believing in Lonzo, but this team had the same questions last season and ended up a top 10 3 point shooting team largely because of JJ/Ingram/Lonzo.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 8:59 am to TigerinATL
And again the loss of Jrue is equally offset by the addition of Bledsoe.
So please name the 3 pt shooters we lost that will cause us to shoot worse (aimed at those claiming we are worse). Moore and Frank hit a couple, but we have Lewis if he comes along and gets more minutes as the season goes.
So please name the 3 pt shooters we lost that will cause us to shoot worse (aimed at those claiming we are worse). Moore and Frank hit a couple, but we have Lewis if he comes along and gets more minutes as the season goes.
This post was edited on 12/8/20 at 9:04 am
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:02 am to Fun Bunch
quote:How is the shooting on this team worse than the shooting on the team last season?
Shooting is necessary. No one said we have to be the Warriors. But on paper, this is a poor 3 point shooting team. When you have two guys down low that live 3 feet from the basket, you do need some shooting, and ours is suspect. That doesn't mean we won't do it and do well at it, this is simply an on paper thing going into the season.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:04 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Lowe is gravely concerned over the lack of shooting and depth on the roster.
I would like another 3 and D wing, but I think everyone can always say that. I don't think we really lack depth though. Outside of the starting 5, you have JJ, Hart, Hayes, and Melli who are all great to solid in limited roles, then need NAW or Kira to put it together for 10-15 minutes a night. We are not the deepest team, but we have depth. A serious injury will likely derail the season, but again, most teams are that way.
As far as shooting, JJ and BI are great, Bledsoe is no different than Jrue, Melli is lights out if on, Hart is a pretty solid shooter, and Zion isn't consistent but if he can hit 1-2 a game that forces teams to start respecting him outside of the lane. Not sure you can ask for much more.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:04 am to Epic Cajun
If anything shooting should be better. You expect an uptick from NAW, Zion, Melli, and even Hart. Not to mention Kira. I don’t think shooting will be any worse but I don’t necessarily think this team will rely on the deep ball as much as the Gentry teams did.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:16 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
How is the shooting on this team worse than the shooting on the team last season?
I just don't think they will shoot as well as they did last year because I think some of last year was a mirage. I do not believe in Lonzo Ball at all. I'm not sure teams will respect Bledsoe's shot as much as they did Jrue's despite similar production.
Gentry's teams went high volume and ran ultra fast paced allowing for more quick and open 3 pointers. We will not be doing that this year, we will be running a lot more half court and a lot more motion in the half court. Guys will need to work to get open and then nail the shot.
Again, last year's team ON PAPER wasn't a good 3 point shooting team and then did pretty well.
This year's team isn't a good shooting team ON PAPER.
Which is what we are talking about. Concerns going into the season. Not projecting what could happen based on last year.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:22 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The Lakers comparison is ludicrous.
First of all, that team has two top 5 players, including one of the two greatest players in basketball history. BI and Zion aren't there yet.
That still doesn't mean we can't be a slightly less successful version of what they did this year.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:25 am to whatiknowsofar
We can be.
Again, that doesn't mean that on paper, shooting isn't a concern going into the season.
There are different ways to win. There are teams that can't shoot that win games.
That doesn't mean shooting isn't a concern.
FWIW, I think Zion and BI will be so good that it will neutralize some of that.
Again, that doesn't mean that on paper, shooting isn't a concern going into the season.
There are different ways to win. There are teams that can't shoot that win games.
That doesn't mean shooting isn't a concern.
FWIW, I think Zion and BI will be so good that it will neutralize some of that.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:27 am to Fun Bunch
You are irrationally hyped about the Pels this year though
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:27 am to Fun Bunch
You keep referring to this "paper". Can we see it?
J/k - seems like you hit a sore spot with a few posters in this thread. Goodluck.
J/k - seems like you hit a sore spot with a few posters in this thread. Goodluck.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:29 am to Pelefraan 1
quote:
You are irrationally hyped about the Pels this year though
He asked to be brought back down to earth and Zach Lowe gave him what he needed.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:30 am to xXLSUXx
Again, I am pretty hyped about this year and think we will be better than a lot of people think. SVG is an infinitely better coach and if Zion plays most of the year, we are in a MUCH better spot.
I think we can have intellectually honest concerns though. This team isn't the 96 Chicago Bulls.
We have weaknesses and its pretty reasonable to discuss and recognize them.
I think we can have intellectually honest concerns though. This team isn't the 96 Chicago Bulls.
We have weaknesses and its pretty reasonable to discuss and recognize them.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:31 am to TigerinATL
quote:
He asked to be brought back down to earth and Zach Lowe gave him what he needed.
I'm still pretty excited.
Just trying to have a rational discussion on weaknesses based on Lowe's thoughts.
Posted on 12/8/20 at 9:31 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I get how you can say certain lineups lack shooting, and I even understand not believing in Lonzo, but this team had the same questions last season and ended up a top 10 3 point shooting team largely because of JJ/Ingram/Lonzo.
And what did it cost to get there?
Because I both do not really agree we are the same shooting team as last year, as Bledsoe is a downgrade teams will respect less and we lost Moore, who in addition to being depth at a position that could guard threes, was one of our more reliable shooters.
But beyond that, how many games was Gentry constantly shuffling through lineups like a maniac to find the hot hand(s)? Because we might have shooters in the aggregate, but a frustrating amount of them are high variance and/or flawed elsewhere. And I don’t think SVG is going to be as keen on making those sacrifices to chase the three as Gentry was. For instance, I don’t see him running ultra small lineups for extended periods of time simply because he needs to generate offense while that lineup is bleeding out on the boards and getting abused in the interior. Residing himself to yelling about guys not executing when it’s clear a big reason for that is simply you are putting lineups and using strategies out there that it is impossible to expect that sort of production out of and are more often than not, clearly designed with a primary focus on generating shooting, or producing fast break points, while sacrificing other areas.
I think maybe in this respect and this respect only, people are deeply undervaluing Gentry’s ability to generate offense as a coach by his mad scientist approach with chaotic rotations and substations, emphasizing the need for pace and building entire team strategies around getting guys like Zion into transition instead of staying home to rebound, and overvaluing the players he shuffled around and tinkered with to make it happen. And I don’t think SVG is the type of coach to prioritize things in that way. Which I think is fine because he will produce a net benefit to the team overall with his approach and prep, but I think people are setting up themselves for disappointment thinking we can become a top 5 shooting team and a top 10 defense. We just do not have the personnel for that.
This post was edited on 12/8/20 at 9:37 am
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