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re: Zach Lowe discusses the Pelicans draft night at length
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:17 pm to cgrand
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:17 pm to cgrand
quote:
man i'm as optimistic as the next guy but that is some convoluted logic. it only "made sense" to trade the 2026 pick if thats what they HAD to do to move up.
If we are trading Zion right now we would not have traded our 26' 1st. If we expect to trade Zion before next season then we would expect a big return that replaces our 26' pick. The goal is to be as good as possible this year whether we trade Z/ Murray or not and this team is not a lottery team.
You can't look at it like "we traded next years 1st" and have to view it as "we drafted 2 lottery picks"
The pick next year is irrelevant if we plan to be both good and plan to get 26' assets from a trade.
If you look at the trade like Zion is on the way out if he doesn't absolutely kill it this year then it makes a lot of sense.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 12:19 pm
1
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:18 pm to New City Champ
quote:
where would Queen have been ranked in next year's class
hard to tell... next year's class is strong...
quote:
The major point seems to be the Pels didn't get any protection on the '26 pick which the national draft geeks (egged on, I'm sure, by their front office egghead sources) treated like it was a mortal sin of draftology.
this is a perfect way to describe the hysteria everyone seems to have about the trade....
quote:
If Queen is top-10 worthy pick, what's the difference if you take him this year or next (it's better to get him sooner). If he's not, then you blew the pick either way. You could just have easily blown it next year as this year...
exactly... and the really funny part is they are so sure that the FO is a clown show, but yet they think that if we had a top 3 pick (or whatever) that the FO would nail that one... they talking out of both sides their mouth... or they forgetting that the exact same FO they trashing right now would be the exact same FO making the pick next year... it's one or the other... either they are frick ups, or you trust their judgement, but it can't be both
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:22 pm to Geauxldilocks
quote:
Our new GM is too scared to fire Willie
guess we'll see.... i personally think he'd rather judge for himself, and give Willie a chance to prove himself, and if he doesn't, then yeah, he's gone...
look, I hate Willie as HC as much as anyone else... it's pretty well documented on this board how I feel about him... but you kind of have to let Dumars do his thing, to see if the new direction will lead us to better results... it's way too early to tell if these moves are shite or not... there's no empirical evidence to judge, it just opinion, and making these broad assumptions based on that opinion and recency bias...
everyone just needs to take a breath, let shite play out, and then once we get rolling, we see what we got, and then you can judge based off of FACT rather than emotion...
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:28 pm to chRxis
We fired Willie because we are too cheap to pay a new coach and a buyout. I thought we were all up to speed there
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:30 pm to Dantheman504
quote:that is 100% true irrespective of this years draft or next years. I’m not criticizing the trade at all, I’m just pointing out that trading next years pick (vs a later pick) doesn’t have anything to do with Zion…they wanted queen they got him, at a very high price
If you look at the trade like Zion is on the way out if he doesn't absolutely kill it this year then it makes a lot of sense.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:32 pm to chRxis
quote:
exactly... and the really funny part is they are so sure that the FO is a clown show, but yet they think that if we had a top 3 pick (or whatever) that the FO would nail that one... they talking out of both sides their mouth... or they forgetting that the exact same FO they trashing right now would be the exact same FO making the pick next year... it's one or the other... either they are frick ups, or you trust their judgement, but it can't be both
Front offices can have different strengths. You can be good at drafting and not good at negotiating or valuing your assets. It’s not the same skill set.
And it’s a lot harder to make a mistake at the top of the draft. Those pics are usually more obvious than middle of the first.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:37 pm to cgrand
quote:
I’m just pointing out that trading next years pick (vs a later pick) doesn’t have anything to do with Zion…they wanted queen they got him
It 100% has to do with Zion. He plays the same position, whether we got him to back him up or replace him it has to do with Zion. If it didn't have to do with Zion then we wouldn't have traded 26' 1st. Trading him for his upside doesn't make sense unless it has to do with Zion's direct impact on the team.
We traded the 26' 1st because we either expect to be really good with the addition or expect to retain a pick by way of future trade. Both of those scenarios heavily rely on Zion. We got Queen because its the best case scenario regardless of that outcome but the outcome itself directly impacts why we made that pick.
Throw in the initial comments of "Dumars was demanded to trade Zion" and it makes sense. Dumars is simy covering his arse. He probably doesn't want to trade Zion and begged to let him see if it works out but saw the perfect opportunity to get the best replacement if it doesn't work out. Its a win win, if he's expected to trade Z anyway then we already got his replacement and can now look at what other assets in a Z trade helps us going forward.
Or Dumars gamble to hold on to Z actually pays off and we see a healthy top 20 player in the NBA with good depth. Poole breaking out would just be a cherry on top.
He's taking maximum risks while also covering his arse. IMO we really couldn't ask for a better situation considering the circumstances.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:39 pm to Dantheman504
quote:I disagree with you and that’s fine. Dumars traded the 2026 pick because that’s what Atlanta insisted on to do the trade
We traded the 26' 1st because we either expect to be really good or expect to retain a pick by a future trade.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:44 pm to cgrand
quote:
Dumars traded the 2026 pick because that’s what Atlanta insisted on to do the trade
If we offered it to several other teams then that's not true and Atlanta was just the first team to bite.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 12:58 pm to Dantheman504
if that’s the case (Dumars led with the 2026 pick, unprotected, with two chances to be in the lottery…one of the most valuable assets in the league) then I retract my earlier statement and joe dumars is indeed an idiot
I don’t think he’s an idiot, thus I don’t think that’s what happened
I don’t think he’s an idiot, thus I don’t think that’s what happened
Posted on 6/27/25 at 1:14 pm to cgrand
quote:
one of the most valuable assets in the league
Its not the most valuable asset in the league until after the lottery and we may not even have either pick in that lottery. Its not that stupid when looking at the current facts. If Queen is a great player then it its wash even if the pick ends up in the lottery. There's several scenarios where it works out for us and 1 worst case scenario. There's absolutely no guarantee its going to be worst case scenario.
And again if several teams turned down that offer then was it really that bad? Answer that question honestly... Its either because it really wasn't that bad of an offer or because the talent drafted was worth it > that offer.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 6/27/25 at 1:31 pm to PELsu
quote:
We fired Willie because we are too cheap to pay a new coach and a buyout.
if that's what you want to think, i can't stop you... but i really don't think that's the reason why
Posted on 6/27/25 at 1:33 pm to higgsBoson
quote:
And it’s a lot harder to make a mistake at the top of the draft.
Sam Bowie and Anthony Bennet come to mind...
quote:
Those pics are usually more obvious than middle of the first.
dunno man... you CAN find talent all over, provided you do your home work... Jokic was taken at 41, and well, we know what he's done
Posted on 6/27/25 at 1:43 pm to chRxis
I think that the most recent complete bust in the top 3 is James Wiseman.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 2:55 pm to Dantheman504
quote:that is true of every 2026 1st round pick, here in june of 2025
Its not the most valuable asset in the league until after the lottery and we may not even have either pick in that lottery
quote:as i said before, i dont believe that the offer ever included a 2026 unprotected pick until atlanta asked for it. that is where we differ
And again if several teams turned down that offer then was it really that bad?
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