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re: why does it seem everyone is ok/pleased with Asik?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:39 am to SirWinston
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:39 am to SirWinston
quote:
I haven't watched enough to have an informed opinion but so far I consider him one of the most frustrating guys in the entire league to watch.
He's arguably a bigger retard/spaz than Aminu.
Getting frustrated at Asik for not being skilled with the ball offensively is akin to getting frustrated at Klay Thompson for getting rebounded over by DeAndre Jordan or someone. Klay Thompson isn't Charles Barkley and Omer Asik isn't Marc Gasol. If you get frustrated for expecting them to be, you are the problem. Not them.
Aminu is not one of the 2,800 or so people in the world 7 feet or taller. Yet he still made the NBA, I would hope he wouldn't be a bigger spaz.
1
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:42 am to TheSexecutioner
Wtf were people expecting out of Asik? He is what he is, and what he is is much needed by this team. He does the dirty work, plays hard and gets rebounds. He's not out there to be shaq. Would you all rather we go back to Jason Smith?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:45 am to ColeLSU
quote:
So far it seems he's just an ogre standing on the court...
Last night Dwight Howard had 17 pts and 13 rebs in 35 minutes.
Looks like he had:
In 24.5ish minutes with Asik on the floor he had 10 pts and 7 rebs.
In the 10.5ish minutes without Asik on the floor he had 7 pts and 6 rebs.
Harden and Howard also combine for 19.6 free throw attempts per game. Last night they combined for 10.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:51 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Wtf were people expecting out of Asik? He is what he is, and what he is is much needed by this team. He does the dirty work, plays hard and gets rebounds. He's not out there to be shaq. Would you all rather we go back to Jason Smith?
I don't even know where people would get that he was coming in here to be the reincarnate of Hakeem. I agree with you 1000%. Have an upvote.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:09 pm to suavecito80
I guess people just didn't know what they were getting. I'm happy with his performance. He forces opponents to take terrible shots, which is hard to put into numbers but if you watch the games you'll notice it. He also grabs rebounds at a high rate, he was brought in to play defense and rebound the ball. Anything more than that is a bonus.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:22 pm to ColeLSU
quote:
Just needs to be better and stronger at basket when he does have ball
Yeah I just want him to go up strong with 2 hands quickly after receiving the ball under the basket. He seems to pull it down way to much and then gets blocked by the rim.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:41 pm to bigberg2000
quote:
Yeah I just want him to go up strong with 2 hands quickly after receiving the ball under the basket. He seems to pull it down way to much and then gets blocked by the rim.
Definitely. And that might translate to a bucket every other game. But we are missing that point per game versus his very achievable potential, not what we would get with Stiemsma.
Certainly worthy of a mention in a thread, but it needs perspective in how effective he is in making us a better team. He's missing a high percentage of his attempts going up under the rim, but who cares? It's a point a game. At most 2. Alter 1 extra shot or snatch a rebound away from a guy going for a outback, and he's made up for it.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 1:44 pm to TheSexecutioner
You can't have a conversation about Asik without consideration of what we gave up for him, and what it will cost to keep him.
Folks on this board seem to think that 1st round picks aren't worth much, because they have no inherent guarantees of the quality of player you can draft. Well, these picks are clearly seen as assets as they seem to facilitate every single NBA trade. They are very liquid assets, as they do not have cash value. You give up all of your liquid assets to acquire players, you don't have much power to react when the market presents an opportunity.
Asik has played and filled the role he was expected to, but I'm not sure that is the point. Why give up an asset for something you can get I'm the open market next year? Sure that is oversimplified, but my point is you have to weigh all costs when talking about a player. Same thing with Gordon. Yeah, he started to look like an NBA starter before his injury, but what do you expect when I guy is getting played in the tip tier?
Folks on this board seem to think that 1st round picks aren't worth much, because they have no inherent guarantees of the quality of player you can draft. Well, these picks are clearly seen as assets as they seem to facilitate every single NBA trade. They are very liquid assets, as they do not have cash value. You give up all of your liquid assets to acquire players, you don't have much power to react when the market presents an opportunity.
Asik has played and filled the role he was expected to, but I'm not sure that is the point. Why give up an asset for something you can get I'm the open market next year? Sure that is oversimplified, but my point is you have to weigh all costs when talking about a player. Same thing with Gordon. Yeah, he started to look like an NBA starter before his injury, but what do you expect when I guy is getting played in the tip tier?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 1:50 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Folks on this board seem to think that 1st round picks aren't worth much,
It's not a 1st round pick yet. If the Pelicans manage to make the playoffs it will eventually become 2 future 2nds.
quote:
Why give up an asset for something you can get I'm the open market next year?
Because we couldn't get him on the open market next year unless we burned that very same pick to dump Gordon and free up the cap space needed to go after Asik. Getting Asik's Bird Rights was a big deal. It allowed us to put off getting a SF until next offseason when there will be many more on the market.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 1:52 pm to TigerinATL
We don't attract many FAs, nor do we have the cap to pay FAs if we were to outright sign them.
People complain Omer Asik is a bad offensive center, but if he was good on the offensive side, he'd be a max contract center and everyone would want him.
You can't have 5 top players on your team, you have one superstar, be happy and build around him pieces that fit. Asik is that center that fits.
People complain Omer Asik is a bad offensive center, but if he was good on the offensive side, he'd be a max contract center and everyone would want him.
You can't have 5 top players on your team, you have one superstar, be happy and build around him pieces that fit. Asik is that center that fits.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:09 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Because we couldn't get him on the open market next year unless we burned that very same pick to dump Gordon and free up the cap space needed to go after Asik.
You missed my point. Very generally, all I am trying to say is you have to look at what is given up in relation to what you get back.
You can't just say "we got exactly what we were expecting from this guy" as a defense for a move, which is what a lot of these responses boil down to.
Also, picks don't represent an unknown future player for your team. That's a fallacy I see on this board all the time. Picks equal flexibility, which we are getting less and less of.
You use the example of needing that pick to move Gordon. Well, if we hadnt already gotten rid of every 1st round pick until AD is 40 years old, then it wouldn't have had to be that one pick.
Again, I'm not arguing the merit of the move, I'm arguing with the reasoning I see in this thread.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:11 pm to htran90
quote:
You can't have 5 top players on your team, you have one superstar, be happy and build around him pieces that fit. Asik is that center that fits.
We are a far way from 5 top players. We need another star if we want to compete with the teams that have more than one already.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:14 pm to OceanMan
quote:
You missed my point. Very generally, all I am trying to say is you have to look at what is given up in relation to what you get back.
No I didn't. You're saying the cost is more nuanced than most people get, I'm saying the value we got back is more nuanced as well and goes beyond Asik's on court value.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:23 pm to OceanMan
quote:
We are a far way from 5 top players. We need another star if we want to compete with the teams that have more than one already.
We are far from top players, but giving up draft picks to acquire assets are more worthwhile than taking the gamble.
Building through the draft we'd be worse than what we are now. Payton, Noel, Burke, McLemore, Caldwell-Pope, MCW, McDermott, etc?
We can't move EG, but at this point it doesn't matter to move EG when we can just let his contract run out.
AD's extension starts and we don't have to give up a 1st rounder to remove a player from the team. There's no point at this point in his contract to give up a 1st or a pick to move him without getting a reasonable or decent return. That's why most people put Ryno/EG in a package for a SF. At least we're giving up an asset to get one back while removing an expensive piece.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:30 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
No I didn't. You're saying the cost is more nuanced than most people get, I'm saying the value we got back is more nuanced as well and goes beyond Asik's on court value.
You think your nuance is better than my nuance???
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:53 pm to OceanMan
I think I can nuance your 1st into 2 future 2nds until we get eliminated from the playoffs which means it's not time to panic yet. I still am ok with giving up a 1st for Asik assuming we get the right SF in the offseason.
I also think the rate at which AD has advanced makes the slow build through the draft a less than optimal strategy. People like to point to the OKC model but that's not a repeatable model. They drafted 3 top 15 players in the league without having a single #1 pick.
AD is ready to contend now, not wait for MCW to develop a shot, or Dario Saric to come over from Europe. Demps has been far from perfect, but the moves I'd like to have back are things like resigning Gordon, not missing out on likely role players because we traded away late lottery picks.
I also think the rate at which AD has advanced makes the slow build through the draft a less than optimal strategy. People like to point to the OKC model but that's not a repeatable model. They drafted 3 top 15 players in the league without having a single #1 pick.
AD is ready to contend now, not wait for MCW to develop a shot, or Dario Saric to come over from Europe. Demps has been far from perfect, but the moves I'd like to have back are things like resigning Gordon, not missing out on likely role players because we traded away late lottery picks.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:19 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Yeah they were terrible, but i remember Lopez. I didnt' have a problem with Robin Lopez. I'd rather Lopez over Asik, on top of the fact that he is cheaper, although i don't know what he's going to make next year either.
Asik has a higher PER/better FG%/over 3 rebounds in the same minutes and is a better post defender.
Yes lopez scores a bit more points but we already have enough offense.
Lopez will get around 10 mil and asik will make roughly the same.
I'll take Asiks defense and much better rebounding.
quote:
If we are going to pay 12+ million for a center, then go get Al Jefferson when he opts out this summer.
I'd rather have marc gasol.
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