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re: What happened to Jrue's outside shooting
Posted on 12/2/18 at 3:20 pm to corndeaux
Posted on 12/2/18 at 3:20 pm to corndeaux
There is plenty of data at this point. We just don't want to believe it.
If he was a 33 percent shooter the first four years of his career and was now 38 the last four, your conclusion would be that he has improved and that we can expect the new norm moving g forward.
But when it's the inverse and it goes against what we want to believe, "there is not enough data"
If he was a 33 percent shooter the first four years of his career and was now 38 the last four, your conclusion would be that he has improved and that we can expect the new norm moving g forward.
But when it's the inverse and it goes against what we want to believe, "there is not enough data"
3
Posted on 12/2/18 at 3:29 pm to Crewz
in a general sense though he’s never been known as an outside shooter. He made a lot of short jumpers under collins and that system really seemed to suit him. The pels don’t really hunt for threes as much as they take them in transition or at the end of the clock
honestly I think he needs to stop shooting them so much and look to score in better ways for him
honestly I think he needs to stop shooting them so much and look to score in better ways for him
Posted on 12/2/18 at 4:20 pm to cgrand
The Curious Case Of BenJruemin Button
Posted on 12/2/18 at 4:43 pm to Crewz
I think it’s mental with him. I don’t think it’s a shot he’s comfortable taking or even looking for. It’s even more prevalent this season as his % has just tanked.
Look at the playoffs for example. He looked for that shot in key points and knocked them down.
Look at the playoffs for example. He looked for that shot in key points and knocked them down.
Posted on 12/2/18 at 5:11 pm to Crewz
Plenty of data to support that he is a middling 3pt shooter, which I think he is. Plenty of data to support that he won't stay at 26% from 3 too
I don't have any data to support your inference that he just hasn't worked hard enough to be better from 3
I reject the premise that he NEEDS to be better than the 35% guy he's been the last 4 years to be an effective SG.
He's effective now, was effective last year next to Rondo. He had career highs in TS% and eFG% while shooting 33% from 3 last season
I don't have any data to support your inference that he just hasn't worked hard enough to be better from 3
I reject the premise that he NEEDS to be better than the 35% guy he's been the last 4 years to be an effective SG.
He's effective now, was effective last year next to Rondo. He had career highs in TS% and eFG% while shooting 33% from 3 last season
Posted on 12/3/18 at 12:32 am to corndeaux
Jrue has always seemed more of a mid-range scorer. I think he’s one of those players who got caught in the Great Analytics Explosion and has had some trouble adjusting his game to the 3-point shot imperative. He’s not a natural 3 point shooter. Like DeRozen or Wade, he’s better as a slasher/scorer than as a stand still shooter. Plenty of guys have improved their 3 point shooting but for many it comes as a necessary adaptation after they have lost some of their explosiveness as an athlete. I suspect Jrue will fall into that category.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 8:42 am to corndeaux
I said IF the other person's theory was true, then maybe Jrue should be blamed for not working on it enough
Personally, I think it's a combination of many things, including his constantly changing role and what he is being asked to do.
I think the worst version of Jrue is the one who is thinking on the court. And when his role is constantly changing, he starts to overthink.
I'd say the next biggest reason would be tired legs from the D he plays. I'd say there are probably five or six reasons all adding up to this becoming a problem
And yes, I do think it's a problem - not necessarily for Jrue because he will still find a way to be effective. But it's a problem for the staff because it limits your lineup choices. In the new NBA, having two non shooters on the court gives you a huge uphill task. Three is suicide. And like it or not, Jrue, is one right now
Personally, I think it's a combination of many things, including his constantly changing role and what he is being asked to do.
I think the worst version of Jrue is the one who is thinking on the court. And when his role is constantly changing, he starts to overthink.
I'd say the next biggest reason would be tired legs from the D he plays. I'd say there are probably five or six reasons all adding up to this becoming a problem
And yes, I do think it's a problem - not necessarily for Jrue because he will still find a way to be effective. But it's a problem for the staff because it limits your lineup choices. In the new NBA, having two non shooters on the court gives you a huge uphill task. Three is suicide. And like it or not, Jrue, is one right now
This post was edited on 12/3/18 at 8:43 am
Posted on 12/3/18 at 8:52 am to Crewz
Theories?
What’s the breakdown of his 3PA vs the last few years?
What’s the breakdown of his 3PA vs the last few years?
Posted on 12/3/18 at 9:08 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
ThanosIsADemorcrat email me
Posted on 12/3/18 at 9:28 am to Crewz
quote:Does that then mean he's worked extra hard on scoring inside the arc?
If your theory is right, that he was always pretty bad, but now volume is showing it, then it means he has not worked on it nearly enough
He's certainly lost the 3pt shot, I have no idea why. But his improvement at the rim the past 2 seasons has been off the charts.
Even with losing the 3, these past 2 seasons have been his 2 most efficient seasons. So while of course you'd like to see it all come together, he has improved elsewhere to make up for the lost 3 pt shot, so that helps.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:21 am to shel311
Again, I didn't say his theory is correct. I said IF it was correct (and I don't think it was, BTW)
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:35 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
Does basketball reference not work for you?
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:48 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
What’s the breakdown of his 3PA vs the last few years?
You're lazy but he's increased it at a nominal level each year
When he started here he took 2.7 a game. Now it's all the way up to 4.7 (career high)
Last night's 3s looked nowhere close. It kills me that he's abandoned that jumper on the wing so much. He's got a really good 15fter he never uses anymore.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 11:02 am to whatiknowsofar
I might be lazy, but shot charts, -% of openness, who’s passing him the ball, situational, pull up vs spot up, etc. is all data to discuss.
Could’ve been in the OP, especially from crews, but hey whatever.
Could’ve been in the OP, especially from crews, but hey whatever.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 11:06 am to Crewz
quote:
So.....theories?
Too many of his threes are step back threes. He's much better then he's stepping in to it. I dont know why they cant coach him not to do this.
quote:
He has been trending this way and he now has to be considered a "non-shooter"
Love me some Jrue mid range game
Posted on 12/3/18 at 12:26 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Last night's 3s looked nowhere close. It kills me that he's abandoned that jumper on the wing so much. He's got a really good 15fter he never uses anymore.
Last night he splashed an open three from the corner-ish in which his form looked exquisite, but either Randle or Mirotic got called for three seconds so it didn't count. I was livid
This post was edited on 12/3/18 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 12/3/18 at 1:03 pm to iwyLSUiwy
For the 8th time in this thread - the "more step back 3's" theory is simply not true.
His is taking more assisted, open, and catch and shoot 3's than earlier in his career and hitting them all at a lower rate.
Yes, he should stop the stop back ones most likely, but the more pressing concern is that even when open, assisted, in a catch and shoot scenario he is shooting that shot at a poor rate over the last 4 seasons.
His is taking more assisted, open, and catch and shoot 3's than earlier in his career and hitting them all at a lower rate.
Yes, he should stop the stop back ones most likely, but the more pressing concern is that even when open, assisted, in a catch and shoot scenario he is shooting that shot at a poor rate over the last 4 seasons.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 1:13 pm to Crewz
quote:
Personally, I think it's a combination of many things, including his constantly changing role and what he is being asked to do.
I think the worst version of Jrue is the one who is thinking on the court. And when his role is constantly changing, he starts to overthink
This is a more eloquent explanation of my theory.
I’d love to see Jrue’s 3 pt % as it correlates to turnovers. In games Holiday has 3+ turnovers, does his % drop for instance. That’s the only quantifiable stat I can think of that might back this up a little.
Posted on 12/3/18 at 3:20 pm to Crewz
quote:
then maybe Jrue should be blamed for not working on it enough
because you like to be precise with words, there was no "maybe" in your original statement.
quote:
it's a problem for the staff because it limits your lineup choices
is this part of the thinking about trading Mirotic and going with Randle?
quote:
In the new NBA, having two non shooters on the court gives you a huge uphill task. Three is suicide. And like it or not, Jrue, is one right now
they currently have the 31st best offense of all time on bref. teams guard Holiday from 3, even as he's been cold. that matters because he's still creating space.
maybe that changes in a playoff series though and he gets the Rondo treatment. if so, lineups w/ Payton+Randle will get tight
Posted on 12/3/18 at 3:21 pm to Crewz
I think his injury has messed with his strength in his legs more than we know when jumping for his shot. I have noticed he shoots a ton short off the rim like he is not getting his legs into it. I also noticed when he drills them he looks like he jumps higher for the shot. His legs get tired faster from playing mad defense.
This post was edited on 12/3/18 at 3:24 pm
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