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What exactly happened to Devonte Graham?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:13 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:13 am
Over the last few months of the season and into the playoffs, other than one quarter vs Phoenix and the Bulls game, the dude was unplayable.
But at the start of the season, he was actually pretty good. I remember at one point he was averaging like 17 ppg.
Then he just completely fell apart. He went from nailing game winners against Utah and OKC to being outplayed by pretty much everyone.
Without looking it up, did his decline coincide with Jose's rise?
Did he just lose all confidence? Was he hurt?
For all his faults, he was not this terrible in Charlotte. I don't get it.
But at the start of the season, he was actually pretty good. I remember at one point he was averaging like 17 ppg.
Then he just completely fell apart. He went from nailing game winners against Utah and OKC to being outplayed by pretty much everyone.
Without looking it up, did his decline coincide with Jose's rise?
Did he just lose all confidence? Was he hurt?
For all his faults, he was not this terrible in Charlotte. I don't get it.
8
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:18 am to ghost2most
It's simple. He shot nearly 40% on Catch & Shoot 3s but only 25.7% on Pullup 3s. Remember when Lonzo was a bad shooter until he changed which shots he took? I think playing off the bench with Zion should get Graham to change his shot profile and start looking like a better player, kind of like what happened with Lonzo.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 9:20 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:27 am to ghost2most
I've said it the last couple months, but I think it is a mix of mental(both in confidence and mentality) and shot selection.
If you look at his splits:
- 40% C&S
- 42% on wide open threes
....those aren't bad.
It's what the rest of his splits say:
- 25% on pull up threes(of which 27% of his shots came from).
- 3 of his 4.5 3PA per game came off one or more dribbles, where he shoots close to 25%.
- 38% on non three pull ups
- sub 30% on Driving floaters and layups
- 20% on Step Back 3's(23% on all step backs)
Basically, what Graham needs to be going forward is primarily a C&S player, not trying to go out there and impersonate Trae/Steph. Because he is incredibly bad at trying to play that role. Of course the next issue is that if you ask him to run the offense for any significant number of possessions, he really lacks the skills to pass guys open or create looks for others, so it sort of forces him into that Trae-like role, so I really just don't see a big role for him on this team going forward unless he really makes some leaps in those areas of his game he's sorely lacking.
If you look at his splits:
- 40% C&S
- 42% on wide open threes
....those aren't bad.
It's what the rest of his splits say:
- 25% on pull up threes(of which 27% of his shots came from).
- 3 of his 4.5 3PA per game came off one or more dribbles, where he shoots close to 25%.
- 38% on non three pull ups
- sub 30% on Driving floaters and layups
- 20% on Step Back 3's(23% on all step backs)
Basically, what Graham needs to be going forward is primarily a C&S player, not trying to go out there and impersonate Trae/Steph. Because he is incredibly bad at trying to play that role. Of course the next issue is that if you ask him to run the offense for any significant number of possessions, he really lacks the skills to pass guys open or create looks for others, so it sort of forces him into that Trae-like role, so I really just don't see a big role for him on this team going forward unless he really makes some leaps in those areas of his game he's sorely lacking.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 9:32 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:31 am to ghost2most
His role changed as the season progressed and he seemed to lost confidence towards the end of the season when Jose started to take his minutes.
I don’t think he’s as bad as he was at the end of the year and I think his shots will fall better when he gets comfortable with his role and actually get some court time with Williamson.
I have no doubt he’ll find his place with some continuity this offseason. The only problem now is he’s expensive if he is anything less than your 6th man.
I don’t think he’s as bad as he was at the end of the year and I think his shots will fall better when he gets comfortable with his role and actually get some court time with Williamson.
I have no doubt he’ll find his place with some continuity this offseason. The only problem now is he’s expensive if he is anything less than your 6th man.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:32 am to Bronc
quote:
Basically, what Graham needs to be going forward is primarily a C&S player, not trying to go out there and impersonate Trae/Steph. Because he is incredibly bad at trying to play that role. Of course the next issue is that if you ask him to run the offense for any significant number of possessions, he really lacks the skills to pass guys open or create looks for others, so I really just don't see a big role for him on this team going forward.
That's all true. But shows what a bad trade and contract it is.
There are a lot of dudes out there who can catch and shoot wide open 3s for a lot less compensation than $10 million and a first.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:33 am to Bronc
I guess The plan was always to put him on the court with PointZion and have him catch outlet passes and space the floors
Of course that never materialized.
Of course that never materialized.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:35 am to supe12sta12z
I mean I think people get caught up in the handful of clutch shots and comparatively how bad NAW/Kira looked at times, but pre all-star Graham was still 36% on threes, inefficient attacking the rim, and not doing a great job organizing the offense. We just had guys around him actually playing much worse..
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:35 am to ghost2most
Either way, even if he’s shooting 38% on non-off the dribble threes, he’s not phenomonal at ball handling/creating and he’s detrimental to have on the court for defensive reasons in games that matter.
I refuse to believe there won’t be a better option than him next year
I refuse to believe there won’t be a better option than him next year
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:41 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I guess The plan was always to put him on the court with PointZion and have him catch outlet passes and space the floors
i will admit i had no idea who he was or what he does when they traded for him. like many, i dont watch a whole lot of charlotte basketball. it didnt make sense then and it really doesnt now, but a lot of it is the accelerated development of jose and trey, making him superfluous at best
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:43 am to ghost2most
quote:
That's all true. But shows what a bad trade and contract it is.
There are a lot of dudes out there who can catch and shoot wide open 3s for a lot less compensation than $10 million and a first.
Griff put himself in a really bad bind, and thats partially why I have a difficult time trying to hand him any sort of exec-of-the-year credit. FA was an utter disaster and almost killed this era before it began if Griff actually pulled off some of what he wanted to. Cause in hindsight, 10 mill and a first for Graham is probably a far better outcome than the 23 million for Hardaway Jr he wanted to hand out, or the 30+ million for Lowry.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 9:44 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:45 am to cgrand
Wel the thing he was always really good at was catch and shoot 3s and not much else.
So obviously him taking other shots is less than ideal.
So obviously him taking other shots is less than ideal.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:54 am to ghost2most
quote:
But at the start of the season, he was actually pretty good. I remember at one point he was averaging like 17 ppg.
He was never good, stop lying to yourself. Scoring 17 points on 21 shots IS NOT GOOD. (10/30/21) I just pulled the first game he scored 17 points in as a Pel.
His shot selection is poor. He takes shots like he is Steph Curry but he shoots 36%/34%/84%. Oh, that last number is good, guess what Devonte doesn't do??? DRIVE TO THE frickING RIM AND GET FOUL SHOTS.
I will pull a not so random shooting split from a Pelican that quite a few want to not trade, but just dump from the team. 62%/35%/77%.
Now here are the splits from our "unplayable, undersized undrafted free agent" during the playoffs when he got some decent playing time. 49%/38%/77%.
Devonte has not shown improvement since coming into the league and his shooting has been about the same every year. He is one of those people that doesn't know his role. Jose knows his role and plays it well. Thanks Wheezy.
If Devonte came in 10 minutes a game as the option after Jose and he played his role well then he has a role on the team, problem is he comes in and tries to shoot his way back into a more prominent roll and that costs the Pels. He needs to go. Seriously, he has two good games a year, we don't have time for that.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 9:58 am to ghost2most
Many tried to convince themselves that he was going to be great as a Ball replacement. Sadly, Graham is what he always has been. He just happened to have a stint where he was hot.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 10:18 am to Bronc
Great stuff with the breakdown on the numbers!
He played the bulk of the season basically as our secondary facilitator/playmaker on the perimeter to BI. Our team will look completely different next season with a full season of CJ and then of course if you add in Zion, Graham will rarely if ever be asked to be the facilitator, and he can focus solely on the catch and shoot and I'd assume with more open looks than last season. I think there's hope, if he can get minutes next season if he's still on the team.
quote:I'm certainly all for trading him but for these reasons I do still hold out hope for him if he's back next season.
Basically, what Graham needs to be going forward is primarily a C&S player, not trying to go out there and impersonate Trae/Steph. Because he is incredibly bad at trying to play that role. Of course the next issue is that if you ask him to run the offense for any significant number of possessions
He played the bulk of the season basically as our secondary facilitator/playmaker on the perimeter to BI. Our team will look completely different next season with a full season of CJ and then of course if you add in Zion, Graham will rarely if ever be asked to be the facilitator, and he can focus solely on the catch and shoot and I'd assume with more open looks than last season. I think there's hope, if he can get minutes next season if he's still on the team.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 10:20 am to ghost2most
quote:I was very much against giving up the 1st to get him but going back to last offseason, was there really a "lot of dudes" who we could have gotten in that price range that are high volume 3pt shooters that were hitting at a 37% clip?
There are a lot of dudes out there who can catch and shoot wide open 3s for a lot less compensation than $10 million and a first.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 10:26 am to NOSHAU
quote:I've seen this said all season, and it's never made sense.
Sadly, Graham is what he always has been.
He was very clearly much much much worse this season than last season or even the season before. Pretty much across the board, he was much worse at just about everything.
If we got the production of Graham that he had in his last season with Charlotte, there wouldn't be many complaints.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 10:36 am to shel311
Guys like Ben Mclemore, Georges Niang, and Bryn Forbes are the ones that come to mind that were acquired relatively cheap in FA and filled in as nice 3p shooters off the bench for teams this season.
But Griff was backed into a corner(of his own making), and was trying to find a quality starting caliber PG, that can knock down threes, at the back of FA, and that's a problematic ask
But Griff was backed into a corner(of his own making), and was trying to find a quality starting caliber PG, that can knock down threes, at the back of FA, and that's a problematic ask
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 10:39 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 10:39 am to Bronc
quote:Gotcha
Guys like Ben Mclemore, Georges Niang, and Bryn Forbes are the ones that come to mind that were acquired relatively cheap in FA and filled in as nice 3p shooters off the bench for teams this season.
I think it just comes down to the production we got from him. Last season's Graham is better than those dudes and the $10 or $11mil is a good value(not the 1st going back)
But this season's Graham is the issue, I don't think we could have reasonably expected such a drop off.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 11:38 am to shel311
Gram real issue is his defense. It's literally non existence.
The same situation happened with him in Charlotte where he benched after the ASG. He is not playable alongside CJ.
Posters loved him because he was the anti-Lonzo.
The same situation happened with him in Charlotte where he benched after the ASG. He is not playable alongside CJ.
Posters loved him because he was the anti-Lonzo.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 5/10/22 at 11:52 am to Bronc
I agree with that, Griff swinging and missing in free agency ultimately helped us. Lowry looks like a shell of his former self and it ain’t getting any better, we are truly lucky he wanted to play in a “big market”. Graham is pretty bad but at least he was the least costly frick up Griff actually pulled off. I think we can all agree in hindsight, Lonzo would have a great role on this team and not been too costly to keep but he has injury concerns too for sure. There were questions if he could just accept the role of 3&D here but the moment he gets to Chicago it’s like he’s had an epiphany and finally starts playing the role he’s capable of being great at. Annoying but Klutch clients for ya, eh?
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