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re: Watching college prospects thread

Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:46 pm to
Posted by NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts
Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:46 pm to
quote:

Ok, I never said he was bad defender. People will love guy go ahead. If you project him to be a 20 ppg score with good D I hope you're right and we grab him. If he's a role player that's just scorer I would pass because we need more than just more scorers on this team. If Simmions, Ingram, Brown, Dunn, Luwawu, and maybe Murray are off the board I'll be cool with the Heild pick. He's a scorer that's it, he can be a good defender but as of now that not something he's looked at for. He's not a shot creator, he's not a passer, and he not a rebounder. So I hope if we do choose him I hope he's a damn good scorer because that's all he can bring to the team with his current skill set.


Knocking Hield and then arguing to take Murray over him is baffling. I will never understand your logic there.

Lets also be clear here, unless we get Simmons, we likely aren't getting anyone who is going to play a complex and focal role next season being asked to do multiple things.

The thing with Hield is has shown something guys like Ingram, Simmons, Luwawu and Brown haven't and that is the ability to better your game continually.

And he has a fire, passion, leadership, work ethic and chip on his shoulder no one on our current team has. His life story could make a best selling inspirational novel.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 11:48 pm
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:50 pm to
quote:

The thing with Hield is has shown something guys like Ingram, Simmons, Luwawu and Brown haven't and that is the ability to better your game continually.



Luwawu went from a 25% 3pt shooter to a 35% and improved his shot creation. He also has been playing point this season.
This post was edited on 3/20/16 at 11:55 pm
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/20/16 at 11:55 pm to
quote:

How are they alike? Can you go in depth


This is Meek draft review

quote:

Versatile and athletic player with great scoring ability (he is averaging 28 ppg on 17 shots/pg which is efficient) ... He is a one of the best spot-up shooters in the league 1.52 pps, .415 3p% ... Knows how to use screens and reads defenders well to get open for shots ... possesses nice body strength for the SG position ... Has a nice release and good form on his jump-shot and his range is well behind NBA 3pt (he lands in the same spot where he took off and he is always square to the rim with his shoulders) ... Meeks knows how to get open and has many options; cuts hard to the basket because he knows that he is guarded well or double teamed ... Has great elevation on his shot and when his feet are set he doesn't miss ... Meeks can create his own shots and score in so many ways because of his tremendous speed: off the dribble, step-back that he loves to use to create space for his shot or the pump-fake and dribble drive ... Meeks started scoring more off backdoor cuts because defenders were denying him ... If he hits his first few shots and starts feeling good and gets very comfortable, offensively he is hard to stop ... Jodie is not just a stand still shooter; his speed and quickness are underrated ... Moves very well without the ball. Likes to pull up for 3pt in transition. Meeks will find a way to be factor in every game even if his shots are not falling in ... Very good free-throw shooter .89 ft% ... Passes the ball fairly well. He warms up before games with purpose going full speed ... He almost tripled his scoring average going from 8.8 ppg last year to 25 ppg this year so far ... Defensively he does a good job at getting into the passing lanes. A prolific scorer, He has seven 30+ games so far.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31935 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 12:01 am to
quote:

Luwawu went from a 25% 3pt shooter to a 35% and improved his shot creation. He also has been playing point this season.



He also continues to be sub 40-FG% and playing point is great, too bad he's bad at it. He also became a worse FT shooter this year as well (76->69%)

2.8 APG to 2.9 TOV is not someone who is blowing me away when you pump him up as a "point"

He's not a great rebounder either, 6'7 and grabs 4.8 RPG.

ETA: He is an improving defender though, so he has that going for him.
This post was edited on 3/21/16 at 12:03 am
Posted by NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 12:13 am to
quote:

Luwawu went from a 25% 3pt shooter to a 35% and improved his shot creation. He also has been playing point this season.


And averaging more turnovers then assists. But a 21 year old Euro baller shooting under 40% overall isnt exactly blowing my socks off.

He is a project guy. You have to recognize this right? He is the type of guy we are hoping will come on by the time Davis's next contract is up. I like him, but he is the sort of guy I would love with a second first rounder then my only shot.
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 7:48 am to
quote:

I would be ok with the Heild pick. He's a low floor guy


Wat?
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 8:43 am to
quote:

And averaging more turnovers then assists. But a 21 year old Euro baller shooting under 40% overall isnt exactly blowing my socks off.

He is a project guy. You have to recognize this right? He is the type of guy we are hoping will come on by the time Davis's next contract is up. I like him, but he is the sort of guy I would love with a second first rounder then my only shot.


Yes he is a project but he's worth the risk. He has the tools to be an all round star player in this league. I think he at least pans out in to a 3&D guy. He poses great athleticism, has a good shooting form, and good passing instincts. He's exactly what you want in a typical wing player today.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Yes he is a project but he's worth the risk.


There are 2 problems here. First, if we're talking about pick 12 rather than pick 6 I think there are a lot more people here with interest in Luwawu. Because we will eventually need to use a pick on a prospect like him. 2nd, I think the FO won't want a project player even if the pick was #12. If Demps stays his seat will be very hot. If Demps is fired and Gentry stays, whatever GM they pair him with may only have 2 years to get things back on track. Either way, spending one of your main assets for improvement on a player that might take 3 years to develop just doesn't match the timeline.
Posted by LilWezyAna
BR
Member since Feb 2016
3185 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Now Hield is getting Jimmer comparisons. Laughable


Why exactly is this laughable?
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
288526 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:13 am to
its really weird how you've attached yourself to this dude you know nothing about, in the grand scheme of things
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:19 am to
quote:


There are 2 problems here. First, if we're talking about pick 12 rather than pick 6 I think there are a lot more people here with interest in Luwawu. Because we will eventually need to use a pick on a prospect like him. 2nd, I think the FO won't want a project player even if the pick was #12. If Demps stays his seat will be very hot. If Demps is fired and Gentry stays, whatever GM they pair him with may only have 2 years to get things back on track. Either way, spending one of your main assets for improvement on a player that might take 3 years to develop just doesn't match the timeline.


That's right because drafting NBA ready players and passing over guys who need to develop always work out. That's why teams pass on guys like Leonard, Giannis, and PG because they have to wait for a rookie to become good. I hope people know the difference between draft and FA. No rookie we pick will come in a make a difference in his first maybe 2 years. If you want a guy who can help now go sign him in the off season. For the draft you pick the guy who can be the best at where you are picking while also being realistic with their skill. Not we have AD so we need a guy who can come in and be productive now but pass on the guys who would be much better than him in 3 years.
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:21 am to
I don't get this excitement over Heild. We've seen this story a million times of dominant senior college guard who can score at will come to the NBA and be no more than role players.
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:21 am to
Double post
This post was edited on 3/21/16 at 10:26 am
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:33 am to
quote:

That's right because drafting NBA ready players and passing over guys who need to develop always work out.


That's the problem with the Win Now strategy, once you start down that path it's hard to change direction. One positive aspect of drafting Hield is it greatly reduces the odds of resigning Gordon.

Resign Gordon for $15 and draft Luwawu
or
Draft Hield and sign RFA Otto Porter Jr. for $15 in 2017

I like the 2nd option better. Hopefully we can come up with better options to choose from than that, but we aren't even sure Demps is getting fired yet so you never know.
This post was edited on 3/21/16 at 10:35 am
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73960 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:46 am to
quote:


The league average for shooting guards is:

Height: 6'5.5
Wingspan: 6'8.6

Hield:

Height: 6'4.5
Wingspan: 6'8.5

So he is literally right at the average.


I was more interested in starting SGs, as there are a ton of the smaller variety coming off the benches of the NBA.

Just looking at the top 15 scoring SGs in the NBA. 5 were 6'4" and smaller

McCollum (6'3")
Wade (6'11" wingspan @ 6'4")
JJ (6'3" wingspan @ 6'4")
Oladipo (6'9" wingspan @ 6'4")
Lou Williams




Then you got the 6'6"+ baws you dont see in the NCAAs

Derozan (6'6")
Butler (6'8")
Thompson (6'7"
Wiggins (6'8")
Middleton (6'8")
Batum (6'8")
Fournier (6'7")
Hood (6'8")

Harden is 6'5" with a 6'10" span


That's some serious differentials.


You can look at the Redicks, McCollums, Lillards... 4 year, undersized guys who came in and became good NBA players. You have to hope Heild follows a similar path (though it took redick forever).
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:51 am to
It has already been said we're not re-signing Gordon. I would go after Batum or Bazemore draft Luwawu then in 2017 if Asik is still trash waive him, trade Dante and Alexis for seconds, and release Tyreke rights to create more cap space.people have bashed the win now approach all year and now they want a win now pick. That is the exact move we need to get away from. Build through the draft and sign the talent.
This post was edited on 3/21/16 at 11:01 am
Posted by 504ByrdGang
Member since Nov 2013
2495 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 10:52 am to
And Heild doesn't isn't nearly the ball handle leader or has the speed of those 2.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31935 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 11:06 am to
It's official, you're delusional. 2nd round pick for AA or Cunningham?

The difference between the "win now" draft and your guy is we're getting a potential commodity that has a role we know we can use from day 1 and can make a leap by year 3. His floor is a decent shooter who won't be a liability on the defensive end but won't be a shut down guy.

your guy may take 5 years to develop and his floor is what Cunningham and gee are, decent defenders who can't knock down shots consistently. A sub 40 shooter with mid 30s 3pt shot and bad ft shooting isn't someone who's telling me he's going to be batum. He's closer to sefolosha than batum
This post was edited on 3/21/16 at 11:08 am
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
288526 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 11:11 am to
quote:

We've seen this story a million times of dominant senior college guard who can score at will come to the NBA and be no more than role players.



what about the dominant SR guards that have been good in the NBA?

The age thing is stupid. So he'll be a 22 yr old rookie?

you know who else was?

DWade
Jimmy Butler
Damian Lillard
CJ McCollum
isaiah thomas
redick
draymond green


to name a few.


quote:

We've seen this story a million times of dominant senior college guard



name the last SR guard (or NBA prospect for that matter) that was able to shoot

50fg (16FGA per game)
46 3pt (8 3pt att per game)
90 FT

at this high of a volume.

Can we stop pretending that those are jodie meek-numbers?
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 3/21/16 at 11:14 am to
quote:

It has already been said we're not re-signing Gordon.


I must have missed that quote. Demps has been trying to move on from him for a while, so I think it's unlikely, but Demps also has a history of making the best move available at the time going all the way back to the vetoed Lakers trade. If Demps returns then Gordon and Ryno returning wouldn't be a shocking turn of events.

quote:

people have bashed the win now approach all year and now they want a win now pick.


I do find that funny. There's been lots of talk and agreement lately about how draft picks are where you take your chances because the cost of a mistake is lowest, but even with that pretty prevalent view there are a lot of people that seem pretty ready to trade higher ceilings for higher floors. Maybe I've just lost track of who's said what, but Dunn is about the only high risk high reward guy people seem interested in. Although like I said, I think there'd be more interest in Luwawu at 12.
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