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3
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:47 pm to Crewz
dell...sounds like an apologia. his luck has indeed been bad, but more and more we see how his decisions (whether directed from the top or not) have unnecessarily limited his options and flexibility. i'll use one example...why the S/T for tyreke evans?
rondo...agree 100%. he was HORRIBLE throughout the season. cut us some slack though, because he was fantastic in the POR series and gave us a veneer of confidence and professionalism not seen since 2008. still...i'd rather he came back and took on a player/coach role. que sera
clark...hope you are right
rondo...agree 100%. he was HORRIBLE throughout the season. cut us some slack though, because he was fantastic in the POR series and gave us a veneer of confidence and professionalism not seen since 2008. still...i'd rather he came back and took on a player/coach role. que sera
clark...hope you are right
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:49 pm to Crewz
Completely agree with the Rondo assessment.
Jrue became the closer we needed, and with that, made Rondo rather useless to be on the court at the end of games. Having Clark or Miller out there to hit a 3 made things easier for Jrue than having Rondo do nothing.
His defense was never good.
I think Payton can provide at worst, as good a net rating that Rondo provided with the starters, and he won't close games out either. Really isn't a big loss other than the off the court stuff.
Agree with Clark take as well. He has a swagger about himself that i like, and this team needs. Both he and Moore progressed their game as the season went on and started making things happen off the dribble when people were running them off the 3 point line. both of them started hitting those floaters with regularity.
Outside of Asik's deal, Dell has been a pretty good GM given the circumstances. Injuries have played a big part, but i hate that excuse, and i've debunked that excuse before for the team that played like dog shite the year after making the playoffs.
I like what we did this offseason going after young guys that obviously have the talent, being most were top 10 picks, just haven't played with talents like Jrue and AD to help them be more of a role player.
I like the approach of trading picks for proven players, especially if we are picking around 20 every year. I'd rather Jrue than two late lottery picks. I'd rather Asik than the 18th pick in the draft (at that time, didn't realize he'd play like fettucinni alfredo after that trade), i'd rather Cousins than two late lottery picks, i'd rather Niko than the 20th whatever pick, and i'd rather pretty much and SF this year than our next two first round picks.
We are ready to win now, and we seem to be building up to that. I am glad Dell had the balls to let Cousins walk, and shows he has an eye on the future for a change.
Jrue became the closer we needed, and with that, made Rondo rather useless to be on the court at the end of games. Having Clark or Miller out there to hit a 3 made things easier for Jrue than having Rondo do nothing.
His defense was never good.
I think Payton can provide at worst, as good a net rating that Rondo provided with the starters, and he won't close games out either. Really isn't a big loss other than the off the court stuff.
Agree with Clark take as well. He has a swagger about himself that i like, and this team needs. Both he and Moore progressed their game as the season went on and started making things happen off the dribble when people were running them off the 3 point line. both of them started hitting those floaters with regularity.
Outside of Asik's deal, Dell has been a pretty good GM given the circumstances. Injuries have played a big part, but i hate that excuse, and i've debunked that excuse before for the team that played like dog shite the year after making the playoffs.
I like what we did this offseason going after young guys that obviously have the talent, being most were top 10 picks, just haven't played with talents like Jrue and AD to help them be more of a role player.
I like the approach of trading picks for proven players, especially if we are picking around 20 every year. I'd rather Jrue than two late lottery picks. I'd rather Asik than the 18th pick in the draft (at that time, didn't realize he'd play like fettucinni alfredo after that trade), i'd rather Cousins than two late lottery picks, i'd rather Niko than the 20th whatever pick, and i'd rather pretty much and SF this year than our next two first round picks.
We are ready to win now, and we seem to be building up to that. I am glad Dell had the balls to let Cousins walk, and shows he has an eye on the future for a change.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:50 pm to cgrand
one more thing on dell...none of the picks he has managed to keep and actually take players have been even remotely good picks. the lack of player development outside AD & holiday has been crippling
look at the picks GS, HOU, SAS, etc consistently make at the bottom of the each round that not only make the team, actually contribute.
look at the picks GS, HOU, SAS, etc consistently make at the bottom of the each round that not only make the team, actually contribute.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:52 pm to cgrand
Personally, I think Dell is flawed - like all GMs. Sometmes, though, your flaws aren't exposed because you get lucky. It has been the opposite for him. He has made mistakes AND been extremely unlucky.
His second and third build might have failed regardless, but the truth is we don't know because neither build really got the chance to see it all the way through. Or even partly through. Maybe this build will fail too. But he deserves the chance to see it fail because it was put together wrong and it just can't work. Not fail because of bad luck.
His second and third build might have failed regardless, but the truth is we don't know because neither build really got the chance to see it all the way through. Or even partly through. Maybe this build will fail too. But he deserves the chance to see it fail because it was put together wrong and it just can't work. Not fail because of bad luck.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:57 pm to Crewz
quote:
But he deserves the chance to see it fail because it was put together wrong and it just can't work. Not fail because of bad luck.
maybe better use of the draft assets either in trade or on draft day could have widened his margin for error. my disappointment is that he always seems to be "all-in" and chips pushed to the middle with no fall-back plan
This post was edited on 10/5/18 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 10/5/18 at 3:59 pm to cgrand
I would say those teams picks succeed because those guys are coming into a situation where they aren't asked to do so much. I liken it to a rookie who starts off as a situational 3rd down pass rusher vs. a guy who has to be an every down base DE.
A base DE has a ton of things to do and make a ton of decisions at lightning speed. And they often choose wrong their first year. The situational guy comes in and has to do one thing and one thing only and then after he masters that, they give him a little more and then a little more.
I have said for years that if Sacramento takes Kawhi Leonard, he doesn't become half the player. And not just because of the coaching, but because he was able to do just one thing at a time in SA.
Thats a long way of saying that his draft record is bad, yes, but we have seen Austin Rivers be fine in a much smaller, specific role. I also know he loved Klay the year he came out and was considering a move up for Oladipo in that draft.
Luck and circumstance are real things. Are they an excuse or the be all end all? Of course not. But I don't believe in ONLY looking at the end result. Everything in life is far more complex than that.
A base DE has a ton of things to do and make a ton of decisions at lightning speed. And they often choose wrong their first year. The situational guy comes in and has to do one thing and one thing only and then after he masters that, they give him a little more and then a little more.
I have said for years that if Sacramento takes Kawhi Leonard, he doesn't become half the player. And not just because of the coaching, but because he was able to do just one thing at a time in SA.
Thats a long way of saying that his draft record is bad, yes, but we have seen Austin Rivers be fine in a much smaller, specific role. I also know he loved Klay the year he came out and was considering a move up for Oladipo in that draft.
Luck and circumstance are real things. Are they an excuse or the be all end all? Of course not. But I don't believe in ONLY looking at the end result. Everything in life is far more complex than that.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 4:09 pm to Crewz
couterpoint: the pels under demps are notorious for putting limited players in roles where they are asked to do more than they are capable of, and have watched as some of those limited players have gone on to be contributors on good teams
is that more to do with coaching or team building?
is that more to do with coaching or team building?
Posted on 10/5/18 at 4:15 pm to cgrand
quote:
is that more to do with coaching or team building?
I think it's a combination of factors. I put most of it on the roster though. Due to either injury or miscalculation the rosters have just had too much dead weight on them. If everyone is healthy then Solomon Hill being the only bad contract on the team might be the best shape the roster has ever been in under Demps. This is also the first time where it feels like ownership, the front office and the coaches are all on the same page. That's how winning organizations do it.
This post was edited on 10/5/18 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 10/5/18 at 5:19 pm to TigerinATL
At the end of the day, Jrue, Gordon, Tyreke, Anderson, Davis, Asik etc should have worked. Last year’s version was one of the last four teams standing in the brutal west and stole a game from possibly the greatest team of all time. And this year’s version “could” be even better, though time will tell.
My issues have never been about the deals he has made, but more the deals he hasn’t. This team has let too many good players walk out the door for nothing. So many circumstances surrounding it, like Gordon getting hurt before the trading deadline, but still. I feel more forward thinking could have been done at times.
My issues have never been about the deals he has made, but more the deals he hasn’t. This team has let too many good players walk out the door for nothing. So many circumstances surrounding it, like Gordon getting hurt before the trading deadline, but still. I feel more forward thinking could have been done at times.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 6:12 pm to Crewz
Mike, you are totally disregarding Rondo’s play the latter part of the regular season. We don’t even make the playoffs without him evicerating teams down the stretch.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 6:12 pm to cgrand
addendum:
- Demps drafted Austin Rivers, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard.
- within a a month, he re-signed Eric Gordon, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard, to a max.
- within a year, he traded for Jrue Holiday, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard, and Tyreke Evans, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard.
Rivers was bad in NO. and maybe he was never going to work out particularly well, but that's not a great way to develop talent
- Demps drafted Austin Rivers, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard.
- within a a month, he re-signed Eric Gordon, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard, to a max.
- within a year, he traded for Jrue Holiday, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard, and Tyreke Evans, a combo, ball dominant scoring guard.
Rivers was bad in NO. and maybe he was never going to work out particularly well, but that's not a great way to develop talent
Posted on 10/5/18 at 6:16 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I put most of it on the roster though. Due to either injury or miscalculation the rosters have just had too much dead weight on them
agree.
Demps has struggled to build rosters with talents that mesh well together and fit his desired style of play (which seems to be fast paced, ball movement, etc).
like cgrand pointed out, his big moves have usually left the team scavenging the depth of the league for guys to fill out the roster. bad luck that the team has been exposed in this way, sure. but injuries happen to everyone
still not sure about their depth this year, but they do have a collection of talent that fits well together IMO
Posted on 10/5/18 at 6:50 pm to corndeaux
any front court injury and this team is in big trouble
Posted on 10/5/18 at 6:59 pm to Solo
I am not disregarding Rondo's play at all. He improved. But others improved MORE when Boogie went down and the offense got faster and opened up.
Clark improved a bunch. The Jrue/Moore closing backcourt was unreal with either Clark or Miller. AD went up two notches.
Rondo gets all this credit because he was brilliant in the Portland series, but the reality is that the increased pace and ball movement helped a lot of guys - event when Rondo was off the floor.
Rondo was good, but I am battling against this narrative that has built that he was VERY good in the regular season. He wasn't. What he was in the regular season is replaceable.
Clark improved a bunch. The Jrue/Moore closing backcourt was unreal with either Clark or Miller. AD went up two notches.
Rondo gets all this credit because he was brilliant in the Portland series, but the reality is that the increased pace and ball movement helped a lot of guys - event when Rondo was off the floor.
Rondo was good, but I am battling against this narrative that has built that he was VERY good in the regular season. He wasn't. What he was in the regular season is replaceable.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 7:01 pm to corndeaux
"Injuries happen to everyone" is kind of a lazy sentence in this debate. While true, they don't happen to everyone to the same extent and for 4 years straight the Pelicans were in the top 3 in games missed and lead the league twice in Games missed by starters.
Again, Dell is flawed. But he wasn't dealt an average hand. He made mistakes AND was given crappy circumstances.
Again, Dell is flawed. But he wasn't dealt an average hand. He made mistakes AND was given crappy circumstances.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 7:16 pm to Crewz
why the article though...what makes you think he’s in danger of not seeing this through?
Posted on 10/5/18 at 8:13 pm to Crewz
Great article on Dell. It’s very informative and well written. I’m just amazed how much buzzard luck Dell has suffered with the Pels. I hope this time it works. But you have to give him that he’s a good judge of NBA talent. I’m not sure how many GMs can find decent players in the second round.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 8:31 pm to Crewz
quote:
Rondo was good, but I am battling against this narrative that has built that he was VERY good in the regular season. He wasn't. What he was in the regular season is replaceable.
SO he was good now? Seems this is a different tune than what Ive seen before from you on here. Maybe he is replaceable, but not by Elfrid freaking Payton. This team is in trouble if someone doesnt step up to take his minutes.
Posted on 10/5/18 at 8:40 pm to Mad Scientist26
quote:
I’m not sure how many GMs can find decent players in the second round.
which decent players has dell demps found in the second round?
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