fair. their luck has been wretched

at some point though, if this happens for 4 years straight, you would think he should try to adjust. that he would try to bring in more quality depth. that he might realize his grand strategy of punting on the draft and signing young vets to 4 year, mid-tier contracts limits his ability to build any depth.

or that they would take a look at what exactly their training staff is doing- which they did.

quote:
He made mistakes AND was given crappy circumstances

sure. i do think some of this cuts both ways though- how many other organizations would have kept their GM given what he has accomplished? he's been pretty lucky to actually keep his job given the track record.

it's funny- to me a large part of that is the same lack of concern/care from ownership that also hinders his work as a gm. it's like a bizarro greek tragedy

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Posted by TigerinATL

Member since Feb 2005

61498 posts

Posted on 10/6/18 at 9:15 am to corndeaux

Tyreke is ground zero, or perhaps not doing a S&T of Gordon. Trying to undo the collateral damage from those missteps sort of created the other problems. I'm not saying it's not Demps' fault, but once these decisions were made it was a big hole to climb out of. I'm really surprised he's been able to get the roster to this point.

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Posted by cgrand

HAMMOND

Member since Oct 2009

38784 posts

Posted on 10/6/18 at 9:29 am to corndeaux

quote:
it's funny- to me a large part of that is the same lack of concern/care from ownership that also hinders his work as a gm. it's like a bizarro greek tragedy

exactly
one the one hand there’s blame to be cast for telling demps to make win now decisions “or else”...and yet he hasn’t “won now” and he’s still here almost 10 years and on his 3rd rebuild following the exact same path that hasn’t worked twice before. And yet he “deserves” to see this thru due to bad luck

please...
he should have been long gone based on his track record regardless of circumstances. It’s nothing other than good luck that he’s still here at all

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Posted by Crewz

Member since Jun 2014

5093 posts

Posted on 10/6/18 at 9:48 am to cgrand

All that is fine. But for me personally - to know whether he is a bad GM or an avg/above avg GM with bad luck, I need to see him fail without bad luck playing a major part. I think thats fair, as far as being a requirement to truly evaluate him.

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Posted by Solo

Member since Aug 2008

8240 posts

Posted on 10/6/18 at 11:59 am to Crewz

Trade a first for Asik
Hire a pace and space coach
Have God’s gift to Center(AD) on the roster re a pace and space system
Bid against yourself and sign Asik to an huge overpay despite the above
Asik overpay destroys cap space
Trade a first to move Asik(this one worked out in fairness)

Dell is 100% responsible for that failure.

With that said, the injury issues are certainly not his fault.

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Posted by Crewz

Member since Jun 2014

5093 posts

Posted on 10/6/18 at 12:50 pm to Solo

Give me the name of any GM and I can show you a huge mistake he made and/or one he tried to make but luck bailed him out.

Its not black or white. He is not a mistake-free GM or a mistake-only GM. Like all of them, he has smart and dumb moves. I have said for years that he has two glaring flaws - He has a bias towards optimism and he is bad at accepting sunk cost. But I have seen him clean up the latter. Old Dell would have brought Boogie back at whatever cost.

Like players, executives can improve with time too. I think Dell has. If you want to fire a guy for X, that only makes sense to me if he will want to do X again in the future. I believe he has learned X is bad and wouldn't do it again. So, I wouldn't use him doing X to fire him.

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Posted by The Last Coco

On the water

Member since Mar 2009

6840 posts

Posted on 10/7/18 at 9:20 am to Solo

quote:
We don’t even make the playoffs without him evicerating teams down the stretch.

And if he wasn't so awful in large part throughout the regular season, we dont need him to eviscerate teams at the end just to make the playoffs.

Rondo was a liability for far more of the season than he was an asset. I think elfrids ceiling is lower than rondo, but his floor is also higher so his overall impact will hopefully be more positive.

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Posted by corndeaux

Member since Sep 2009

9634 posts

Posted on 10/7/18 at 10:00 am to Solo

quote:
Trade a first for Asik

trading a first for Asik was actually a good move (aside from pick protection). they just went through a season w/ Steimsma, Withey, Ajinca, and Smiht as 5s. Asik was a big part of their playoff run

quote:
Have God’s gift to Center(AD) on the roster re a pace and space system

couple of things here:

1) Davis really didn't (doesn't?) want to play the 5
2) Davis wasn't/isn't physically up for doing that night in and night out, so they have needed guys who can soak up minutes during the regular season

was the need for the original Asik trade self-inflicted? yes. my guess is because Demps thought Davis could play more at the 5 in year 2 w/ Anderson so they shipped out Rolo. Davis was not ready physically or mentally (lots of hiccups defensively) and Demps just made a bad miscalculation there.

they needed a 5, Asik was a good defensive 5 who had played well in Houston's fast paced system.

now it was a terrible miscalculation on the Asik contract. just a dumb move for a guy who had already had injury problems, was getting older and slower just as the league was having extinction level events for slow footed bigs, and Davis was continuing to grow