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re: The Crewz Memorial Trade Machine Thread (TM)
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:36 pm to PelicansBay
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:36 pm to PelicansBay
Crabbe has a 15% trade kicker that bumps him up to $23.
0
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:54 pm to Crewz
You make a great point totally see where you're coming from.
But are you saying the Pels are trying to dump Asik for picks alone? Because if that's the case I can absolutely see why the price for Asik is 2 first round picks.
If not, do Ajinca or Moore or QPon not knock that down the asking price? Ajinca alone almost covers that $5 mil rookie salary when he comes off the books.
The only other thing I think about is Phoenix. Phoenix has cap space and is willing to take on bad contracts. If I'm them I'm thinking I can swap Dudley (owed $20 mil) for Asik (owed $25 mil), but get a (aka one) 1st round pick in the process. At that point they are turning nothing into something. Because once Dudley comes off the books what do they get in return except cap relief?
But are you saying the Pels are trying to dump Asik for picks alone? Because if that's the case I can absolutely see why the price for Asik is 2 first round picks.
If not, do Ajinca or Moore or QPon not knock that down the asking price? Ajinca alone almost covers that $5 mil rookie salary when he comes off the books.
The only other thing I think about is Phoenix. Phoenix has cap space and is willing to take on bad contracts. If I'm them I'm thinking I can swap Dudley (owed $20 mil) for Asik (owed $25 mil), but get a (aka one) 1st round pick in the process. At that point they are turning nothing into something. Because once Dudley comes off the books what do they get in return except cap relief?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:57 pm to PelicansBay
quote:
One thing to remember when discussing aquiring a player like Bazemore
(17 mill per) or Crabbe (19 mill per) is: We have over 19 mill going to the combination of Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter (31.6 mill if you also count Solo's contract).
That's a good point, but currently we cannot add anything significant with our salary situation. So even if you replace them with someone like Crabbe, you still can't add anything significant, so that guy you add better help you get to the promise land or you'll be stuck in mediocrity for the next 3-4 years paying an arse load of money in salaries and possibly taxes.
Does adding Crabbe makes us contenders? if not, then what's the point of adding him?
Does adding Kris Middleton make us contenders? maybe, maybe not. Probably worth the risk though to find out.
and as i said before, Solo is better than Bazemore all things considered.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:11 pm to DeionDeion
quote:The Nets only got a lottery protected 1st and a 2nd to take on a larger contract in Carroll and they did not even rid themselves of any contract (just a minimal in Hamilton). Maybe they feel Carroll can at least play whereas Asik offers very little on the court.
You make a great point totally see where you're coming from.
But are you saying the Pels are trying to dump Asik for picks alone? Because if that's the case I can absolutely see why the price for Asik is 2 first round picks.
If not, do Ajinca or Moore or QPon not knock that down the asking price? Ajinca alone almost covers that $5 mil rookie salary when he comes off the books.
The only other thing I think about is Phoenix. Phoenix has cap space and is willing to take on bad contracts. If I'm them I'm thinking I can swap Dudley (owed $20 mil) for Asik (owed $25 mil), but get a (aka one) 1st round pick in the process. At that point they are turning nothing into something. Because once Dudley comes off the books what do they get in return except cap relief?
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:21 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I can absolutely see why the price for Asik is 2 first round picks.
I don't understand.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:27 pm to PelicansBay
quote:
I respect him, but he has to be the worst starting SF in the league.
This is just not true. Solo gets a bad wrap but he was very respectable from behind the 3 point line last year at 34.8%, which is up from 32% the year before. His overall offensive game is lacking but this is only his 2nd season of full time starting. If he can continue to work on his shot, get it to 36% this year, continue to hone his defense, he's going to be a essential part of team moving forward.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:40 pm to TeddyPadillac
Solo isn't better than Bazemore, no matter how many times you repeat it. His offense is shaky at best, I doubt he ever avarages 10ppg for a season. He had a nice stretch to close the season, but his contributions are hit or miss. That being said, he is better than what we had at SF before signing him.
Like I said before: the Pels are paying Asik, Pondexter, and Ajinca over 19 mill this season. We are getting nothing on the court for this payout (exempt an occasional Ajinca sighting). If we could turn these non-contributers into a rotational player (at a position of need), it seems like a win-win for us. The team would be better with Bazemore or Crabbe as opposed to the trio of Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter.
Like I said before: the Pels are paying Asik, Pondexter, and Ajinca over 19 mill this season. We are getting nothing on the court for this payout (exempt an occasional Ajinca sighting). If we could turn these non-contributers into a rotational player (at a position of need), it seems like a win-win for us. The team would be better with Bazemore or Crabbe as opposed to the trio of Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:45 pm to DeionDeion
quote:
quote:
I respect him, but he has to be the worst starting SF in the league.
This is just not true. Solo gets a bad wrap but he was very respectable from behind the 3 point line last year at 34.8%, which is up from 32% the year before. His overall offensive game is lacking but this is only his 2nd season of full time starting. If he can continue to work on his shot, get it to 36% this year, continue to hone his defense, he's going to be a essential part of team moving forward.
If it's not true, name 1 starting SF in the league that Solo is better than.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:01 pm to PelicansBay
quote:
Solo isn't better than Bazemore
$12M Solo is better than $17M Bazemore.
If they both made the same money, then yeah, Bazemore is better, but he isn't that much better to justify paying more for him, and/or giving up assets to get him.
quote:
We are getting nothing on the court for this payout (exempt an occasional Ajinca sighting). If we could turn these non-contributers into a rotational player (at a position of need), it seems like a win-win for us
I don't deny this at all, but as i pointed out before, we cannot add talent right now with our salary situation, so if we are going to replace that dead salary with someone else long term, he better be a difference maker.
Of course the team would be better with Crabbe or Bazemore instead of those 3, but we'd still have no cap space to do anything and we'd likely be in the tax. Do those two guys justify that? No.
I have no problem with unloading Qpon for nothing. I don't have a problem with unloading Ajinca either, but if we do, then we need to get a big man on the team that can replace his minutes, b/c he will be needed this year, albeit a small amount.
I'd prefer to hang on to Asik and wait until we need his expiring salary to make a trade for a legit player, not Kent Bazemore. I'm not throwing away a 1st round pick just to get rid of Asik and win 2 more games a year b/c of the pickup of Bazemore and still have 0 chance at competing for a championship.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:15 pm to PelicansBay
Tony Snell, Evan Turner, DeMarre Carroll (at least same level), Joe Johnson, Maurice Harkless (again at least on the same level), Terrance Ross, Kent Bazemore (stats don't tell the full story he's worse than you think), Thabo Sefolosha, Michael Kidd Gilchrist.
All below if not around the same level as Solo imo. We can argue about who is above or below all summer (this was a quick list off the dome so it's not like I'm collecting stats and watching all of their tape) but my whole point is that Solo isn't the bottom of the barrel. He's not in the top half but I don't think he's as bad as he is portrayed
All below if not around the same level as Solo imo. We can argue about who is above or below all summer (this was a quick list off the dome so it's not like I'm collecting stats and watching all of their tape) but my whole point is that Solo isn't the bottom of the barrel. He's not in the top half but I don't think he's as bad as he is portrayed
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:29 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'd prefer to hang on to Asik and wait until we need his expiring salary to make a trade for a legit player, not Kent Bazemore. I'm not throwing away a 1st round pick just to get rid of Asik and win 2 more games a year b/c of the pickup of Bazemore and still have 0 chance at competing for a championship.
You have to remember, Asik isn't your typical expiring contract. He has 3 mill guaranteed in 2019 if waived. If a team is trading for an expiring, they want that player off their books after that season. We will never get value for Asik (and we shouldn't, he's worthless).
The only trades I propose with Asik involved is for a player with a worse contract (Bazemore, Crabbe). Otherwise, we will have to dump a 1st along with him. I wouldn't give up a 1st for Bazemore or Crabbe. It doesn't make sense to give up a 1st and take on a bad contract.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:42 pm to DeionDeion
quote:
Tony Snell, Evan Turner, DeMarre Carroll (at least same level), Joe Johnson, Maurice Harkless (again at least on the same level), Terrance Ross, Kent Bazemore (stats don't tell the full story he's worse than you think), Thabo Sefolosha, Michael Kidd Gilchrist.
All below if not around the same level as Solo imo. We can argue about who is above or below all summer (this was a quick list off the dome so it's not like I'm collecting stats and watching all of their tape) but my whole point is that Solo isn't the bottom of the barrel. He's not in the top half but I don't think he's as bad as he is portrayed
Smh. Your response seems desperate. I asked to name 1 starting SF that Solo is better than. You named a SG (Snell), 2 old backup SF's (Joe and Thabo), 2 Blazer SF's, and 2 players that are better than Solo (Ross, MKG). Wow. I think you kind of proved my point.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:44 pm to PelicansBay
quote:
You have to remember, Asik isn't your typical expiring contract. He has 3 mill guaranteed in 2019 if waived. If a team is trading for an expiring, they want that player off their books after that season. We will never get value for Asik (and we shouldn't, he's worthless).
The $3M gauranteed is what makes his trade value great. If a team is looking to cut salary, they can send out $12M, take back $12M in Asik, and then cut him and he only counts for $3M. You just saved yourself $9M. His contract will be an asset for a team looking to cut salary.
He's still untradeable right now, unless we want to give away picks, which i think would be stupid under most circumstances. Even next offseason he'll still be very hard to move. But come the trade deadline of next season, he'll be much much easier to move, and by that offseason, he'll be a wanted man for teams looking to make space.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:52 pm to PelicansBay
To what end are we making these moves though? Lets assume you trade those 3 for Bazemore, How does that change things?
Rondo/Crawford/Cook
Holiday/Moore/Jackson
Hill/Bazemore/Miller
AD/Cunningham
DC/Diallo/Scrub
There are only so many minutes to go around, does Bazemore getting 25 MPG really improve the team vs. a combination of Moore/Crawford/Miller getting those same minutes? I don't think it does but you just added $18 per year for the next 3 years to salary for roughly the same net results.
Especially as they become a tax team thanks to the Big 3, every dollar will matter. Just like the team can't bring back Cunningham and sign Rondo until it sheds some salary this year, I can see a situation in future years where having Bazemore might prevent them from using the MLE. We might need that just to bring back Rondo, because we wouldn't have Bird Rights for him and our trade assets won't be much better next year to trade for a PG.
Rondo/Crawford/Cook
Holiday/Moore/Jackson
Hill/Bazemore/Miller
AD/Cunningham
DC/Diallo/Scrub
There are only so many minutes to go around, does Bazemore getting 25 MPG really improve the team vs. a combination of Moore/Crawford/Miller getting those same minutes? I don't think it does but you just added $18 per year for the next 3 years to salary for roughly the same net results.
Especially as they become a tax team thanks to the Big 3, every dollar will matter. Just like the team can't bring back Cunningham and sign Rondo until it sheds some salary this year, I can see a situation in future years where having Bazemore might prevent them from using the MLE. We might need that just to bring back Rondo, because we wouldn't have Bird Rights for him and our trade assets won't be much better next year to trade for a PG.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 3:57 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Yeah, I think we keep our 1st rounder and continue to work on dumping QPon or Ajinca with cash and continue to negotiate a buyout with Asik. If it does not work out, you eat his contract for another year while he occupies the end of the bench. I don't see Bazemore or Crabbe adding enough to the team to warrant their salary and the effects that will have on the future cap. If we unload enough salary, I would be OK with a min guy who can shoot off the bench (maybe even Babbitt).
To what end are we making these moves though? Lets assume you trade those 3 for Bazemore, How does that change things?
Rondo/Crawford/Cook
Holiday/Moore/Jackson
Hill/Bazemore/Miller
AD/Cunningham
DC/Diallo/Scrub
There are only so many minutes to go around, does Bazemore getting 25 MPG really improve the team vs. a combination of Moore/Crawford/Miller getting those same minutes? I don't think it does but you just added $18 per year for the next 3 years to salary for roughly the same net results.
Especially as they become a tax team thanks to the Big 3, every dollar will matter. Just like the team can't bring back Cunningham and sign Rondo until it sheds some salary this year, I can see a situation in future years where having Bazemore might prevent them from using the MLE. We might need that just to bring back Rondo, because we wouldn't have Bird Rights for him and our trade assets won't be much better next year to trade for a PG.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:01 pm to PelicansBay
quote:
I asked to name 1 starting SF that Solo is better than. You named a SG (Snell), 2 old backup SF's (Joe and Thabo), 2 Blazer SF's, and 2 players that are better than Solo (Ross, MKG). Wow. I think you kind of proved my point.
Just food for thought, Solo had a real +/- of 0.43, 24th best among SF's.
Here's a list of guys that finished below him in that category:
CJ Miles
Thabo
Terrance Ross
Carmelo
Harrison Barnes
Joe Johnson
Tony Snell (who's a SF)
Kent Bazemore
Andre Roberson
Wilson Chandler
TJ Warren (only mentioning him b/c he's somewhat of a target, or has been mentioned)
Jeff Green
Shabazz
Solo is not the worst SF. He's at the top of the not so good SF's, or bottom of the middle of the pack SF's
he also had a better real +/- than these SG's:
Wesley Matthews
Demarr Derozen
Tony Allen
KCP
Dwayne Wade
Jonathon Simmons
Evan Fournier
Andrew Wiggins
Allen Crabbe (74th among SG's)
There are more things that make a player valuable than scoring and shooting well from 3.
Joe Ingles has played games where he didn't score a point, yet finished +12 in the box score +/-.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:08 pm to NOSHAU
Teams just know that Dell has to clear space and dont wanna help him.
Probably his agents has done his work.
Also smart teams expect that Pels MIGHT be good. And their 1st rounder will be in 20s.
For me max to dump Asik should be our both 2018 picks.
If this wont work - just dump QPon and maybe Ajinca.
Make Asiks life miserable.
And ICE to runaway from Asik just stretch him during the season (hopefully around deadline).
Dell. Stretch him. Benson paid for Saints dead money.
And those Asik dollars will be in Pels cap space. So Benson will pay them earlier...
Probably his agents has done his work.
Also smart teams expect that Pels MIGHT be good. And their 1st rounder will be in 20s.
For me max to dump Asik should be our both 2018 picks.
If this wont work - just dump QPon and maybe Ajinca.
Make Asiks life miserable.
And ICE to runaway from Asik just stretch him during the season (hopefully around deadline).
Dell. Stretch him. Benson paid for Saints dead money.
And those Asik dollars will be in Pels cap space. So Benson will pay them earlier...
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:17 pm to pawel
quote:
just stretch him during the season (hopefully around deadline).
Stretching him after August 31st is the same as waiting until next summer to stretch him. I'm not sure what that gets you unless he agrees to a discounted buyout because he's miserable.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:18 pm to pawel
quote:I would be OK with option 2 here. I would prefer to keep the pick(s) as they may come in useful either at the deadline or the offseason. I do not want to lose it just to fix Dell's mistake.
For me max to dump Asik should be our both 2018 picks.
If this wont work - just dump QPon and maybe Ajinca.
Make Asiks life miserable.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 4:21 pm to NOSHAU
Stupid fricking Asik contract is so frustrating. I still don't see how when casual posters could obviously identify it as a shite deal BEFORE it was even signed, that Dell did not recognize how terrible and limiting that ridiculous contract would be.
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