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re: Summer League Game Thread: Sons vs Suns 7:00pm CT
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:25 pm to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:25 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:It more of a huge assumption that it was possible. Before his workouts, he was likely to be available at 10 and was mocked to the Hornets frequently. After workouts, it was pretty much well known he would never make it to 10 and widely reported that the Blazers loved him. You would have had to convince the Kings at 5 to trade to 10 even thought Robinson was on the board. There was little to no chance that the Hornets would have had enough ammo to convince the teams from 2-4 or 5 to trade all the way to 10.
That wasn’t a deep draft like this year even at the time. Honestly it was AD and everyone else. His name was hot but he was still picked sixth. Its a huge assumption if your assuming it wasn’t possible to move up by adding another first (we were also one if the worst teams in the league- making our picks lot more valuable) but regardless that was over 10 years ago so who really knows.
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Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:27 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:I'd trust the evaluation of teams like Miami, Golden State, and Utah/Ainge that all passed on him before I'd trust Houston.
almost wonder if we even did any homework on Whitmore considering he was supposed to go Top 5. Notice the team that picked him, Houston, had actually brought him in for workouts and was considering him for the 4th pick. I get the sense that a lot of teams that passed on him probably didn’t have him in for workouts or medical checks
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:28 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Also, Washington moved up 1 spot.
So it was possible to move up. It's a question of compensation. I'm talking about to get Lively or Dick, like the poster said. I think we could have got into the top 10, 11 at worst, especially with how badly the Magic picked..
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:29 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:Don't get me wrong, I'm always a BPA over fit guy but I'm struggling to find any realistic scenario where we have so much shooting 12 months from now that a prospect known as an elite shooter is just something we don't really need.
Also, this team is in a huge make it or break it year. Another disappointing season and Zion and/or BI are likely gone. So if the guy at 14 is barely going to get minutes no matter what then why are you drafting for fit when this team could look drastically different in 12 months
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:31 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Reminds me of Haliburton
Hearing everyone talk about the other draft options at 14, which don't sound that great, reminds me of the team picking Austin Rivers at 10
Everyone says they knew how good he'd be so we should have just traded up 1 spot and taken him.
So.... if everyone knew, then Sacramento knew so why would they trade back
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:32 pm to brmark70816
Theres a propensity for this organization to hold onto picks/assets rather than use them when needed. Its the same issue Ainge had in Boston. They gambled on luck rather than get an individual they prefer. Personally, I feel they felt Hawkins wasn’t much of a drop off from the players picked before him. I disagree and Hawkins hasnt helped his value in summer league but time will tell.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:34 pm to brmark70816
quote:If you find a team that wants a player they know you do not, sure. If Toronto had 2 players rated closely, we may have been able to move up one spot (at what cost? who knows). However, Dick was rated pretty highly and they clearly wanted him. It is a risk for a team to trade down unless they are very comfortable that the team coming up will not take their player. The fact is that it takes both teams being comfortable with the risk of moving and the compensation to do so.
So it was possible to move up. It's a question of compensation. I'm talking about to get Lively or Dick, like the poster said. I think we could have got into the top 10, 11 at worst, especially with how badly the Magic picked..
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:36 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Certainly. But similar to the post I just made, the frustration is folks take it 1 step too far and the "what if" turns into "we could have had Scoot and chose to keep BI/Zion over him" when we don't know that to be the case.
As for this draft and Scoot, if BI/Zion doesn't work, we'll always look back and wonder what if
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:37 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Theres a propensity for this organization to hold onto picks/assets rather than use them when needed.
Yep, have to keep the war chest full.
quote:
Personally, I feel they felt Hawkins wasn’t much of a drop off from the players picked before him.
I agree with them. Dick is not doing much this year either. He's going to be buried on the bench, unless they make a huge trade.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:38 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:You can't force a team to make a fair value trade.
Yeah when you fail to make a deal for a guy you want thats on Griff too
I don't see how it would be assigning blame to Griff if he tried to get Scoot but Portland never had a reasonable offer on the table.
quote:That's how you overpay and make bad deals. For all we know they could have wanted BI, Trey, and 3 1sts or some shite and wouldn't budge.
You want this guy go get him
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:40 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:The 2 most reputable dudes in media, Shams and Woj, stated before and after that BI or Zion was never offered.
Yeah thats what Griff is telling everyone now. Now hes gotta roll with Zion/BI after the trade rumors and they’re gonna act like I never discussed them in trades. Typical car salesman bullshite.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:42 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:This is all correct but it's discussed in a way where people pretend they know for sure we could have made a deal that made sense for us value wise. None of us know that.
mean technically you can move up in the draft if you throw enough value at a team. The issue isn’t we couldn’t force a team to trade with to move up, its we weren’t willing to meet their value despite the treasure chest of draft picks people on this board say we have
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:46 pm to shel311
Woj stated this before and after- I agree but hes been Griffins voice for a while. Shams stated before Zion was on table but changed his tune afterwards. I think where we always disagree is that you don’t believe Griffin will tell them to say what he wants rather what he is actually doing. I think Griffin plays the media and has done it several times. I think Woj goes along with it because its all part of the business of keeping that relationship.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:47 pm to shel311
Of course none of us do. Everything on this board is conjecture.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:53 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:Right but that's not what some posters think.
Of course none of us do. Everything on this board is conjecture.
See the thread and posts after Scoots 1st game where it wad stated that we could have had Scoot, or the one just a few minutes ago stating Zion's value wasn't even worth a top 3 pick, etc.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 2:54 pm to shel311
Yeah I agree. Thats all speculation. You cant make bold statements like that.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 3:33 pm to shel311
quote:
we could have had Scoot
We coulda had Scoot!
Ten years from now, we'll still be dealing with posters saying that our front office sucked because we drafted Hawkins instead of taking Scoot.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 4:03 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:It's funny cause over the years if Scoot becomes an All NBA dude or even MVP, those dudes will think it further proves their point because they knew he'd be that good.
Ten years from now, we'll still be dealing with posters saying that our front office sucked because we drafted Hawkins instead of taking Scoot
But what if Portland also knew?
Posted on 7/12/23 at 4:32 pm to shel311
Devil’s advocate
Sure Utah passed on Whitmore twice. Houston also passed on him at 4.
Miami and Golden State passing up on him kind of goes into my theory that they didn’t even work him out bc he was a consensus top 6 pick throughout the process
Say what you will about Houston and draft evaluations, but the last few years they picked Eason at 17 (great pick), Jabari at 3 (they had to), Green at 2 (they had to) and made a genius trade up to 16 to get Sengun.
So they have drafted pretty well at 16 and 17 just in the past couple drafts. Their picks in the 20’s have been spotty but part of it is they just had way too many rookies and sophomores on their team to all get big minutes.
Sure Utah passed on Whitmore twice. Houston also passed on him at 4.
Miami and Golden State passing up on him kind of goes into my theory that they didn’t even work him out bc he was a consensus top 6 pick throughout the process
Say what you will about Houston and draft evaluations, but the last few years they picked Eason at 17 (great pick), Jabari at 3 (they had to), Green at 2 (they had to) and made a genius trade up to 16 to get Sengun.
So they have drafted pretty well at 16 and 17 just in the past couple drafts. Their picks in the 20’s have been spotty but part of it is they just had way too many rookies and sophomores on their team to all get big minutes.
Posted on 7/13/23 at 9:46 am to 3PieceSpicy
They also drafted Dillon Brooks/ Isaiah Hartenstein mid 2nd rd and traded the picks.
Solid scouting teams out there
Solid scouting teams out there
This post was edited on 7/13/23 at 9:47 am
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