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re: Shams says Pelicans are “aggressively pursuing” a top 2-3 pick for Scoot
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:15 pm to supe12sta12z
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:15 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
The problem with retaining Naji is this assumption that he wants to return to be an end of the bench guy when he could more than likely get the same or more money on the market and get consistent rotational play
Depends on if he wants to bet on himself or take the guaranteed money now. We pick up the option, he’s guaranteed a total of $5.3 million through the end of next season
If we offer him 4 for 22 million this offseason, you don’t think there’s a chance he takes it, even if it’s less than the open market could get him? An extra 20 million guaranteed is tough to pass up for a guy with his career earnings and a somewhat tenuous spot in the league
This post was edited on 6/15/23 at 12:17 pm
3
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:20 pm to DallasTiger45
Naji is great for availability but we need someone who can shoot in that role imo
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:20 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:Yea, it's in his best interest to go out and get as much money as he can from a team likely or possibly willing to give him more money and minutes, to be honest.
The problem with retaining Naji is this assumption that he wants to return to be an end of the bench guy when he could more than likely get the same or more money on the market and get consistent rotational play.
We won't overpay or can guarantee him minutes as players like Liddell, Dyson, and an incoming shooter could be vying for minutes.
I think Naji will be gone regardless. He's going want an opportunity and as a wing who can dribble, pass, hustle, defend, and rebound, there's going to be a market for him.
He can be a rotation dude who plays 34mpg on a shitty team and averages an inefficient 15ppg...and I honestly don't say that as a bad thing, those dudes can get paid a decent amount, and I'd honestly probably prefer that than being a 12mpg type guy on a deeper team.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:20 pm to DallasTiger45
I'll be absolutely shocked if they offer him anywhere near that ballpark. There's no way we're paying that much for an end of the bench player. He might get that on the open market but I can't see him getting that here with all the extensions looming.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:26 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
There's no way we're paying that much for an end of the bench player.
End of the bench player? He was solidly in our rotation the whole year. Even if Dyson slots in ahead of him next year, we are presumably not re-signing Josh Richardson
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:29 pm to DallasTiger45
Due to Injuries. When we were healthy he was not getting minutes. With Dyson eating up more minutes and Trey will get the most minutes off the bench, I don't see how he's going to get any kind of consistent playing time. Last year is an outlier when it comes to his minutes. Towards the end of the season, he was back to being a spot minute guy.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:36 pm to shel311
quote:
All you've done is explain why going a different route is preferable. You haven't made a single post showing how the money doesn't work if we keep Zion/BI into 2025. If you haven't presented the reasoning by now with the 10 posts back and forth, I think we can fairly assume you won't do it going forward either so it's pointless.
You keep worrying about the top 4 and ignore that to keep the core together that is fine, but are you going to find good replacements for the bench and at center? Your current bench go to guys are going to be way more expensive in their next contracts and so you are going to have to replace them with unknowns and while this regime hit gold the year for Trey, Herb and Jose, you can’t expect that luck again, much like the Saints and the 2017 draft.
It is rare to hit on that many second rounders. So, that is what many have concerns with. Also, you are losing a player like CJ. Who is replacing him? A rookie?
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:42 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:Yes, why can't we?
You keep worrying about the top 4 and ignore that to keep the core together that is fine, but are you going to find good replacements for the bench and at center?
Other teams do it. We're doing it in 2023 with our top 4 players counting for more than the theoretical 25-26 core we discussed, and we have, while not complete, a solid roster...so why can't we do the same in 25-26?
You mentioned current bench guys needing to be resigned...how many dudes from this team do you truly expect to still be here in 3-4 years? Most teams turn over probably 75-80% of their rosters over 3 years, we'll do the same.
Also remember, we have a lot of draft picks coming. Any and each one you hit on, and I just mean hit on with a rotation level player, is 1 additional guy cost controlled that you can use to not resign current guys who may to be resigned.
Just my main point, if we're in line and close to league average and actually below league average in terms of a 25-26 Zion/BI/Herb/Trey core, then what is the reason we can't fill the roster with a solid bench and supporting cast?
quote:Something along those lines, but it is unavoidable, we will have to lose 1 of our top 3 players by 25-26. And even if we trade BI, CJ isn't guaranteed to finish out that contract any way, so we may still have that same question even if we do trade BI for Scoot.
Also, you are losing a player like CJ. Who is replacing him? A rookie?
This post was edited on 6/15/23 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 6/15/23 at 12:52 pm to shel311
You can point to Denver who replace their bench and role players pretty frequently. They don't overpay for roleplayers. Their recent trade also suggest that they are going to use the draft to fill their bench. It's a sound plan if you can draft well.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:00 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:It's also a necessary plan.
You can point to Denver who replace their bench and role players pretty frequently. They don't overpay for roleplayers. Their recent trade also suggest that they are going to use the draft to fill their bench. It's a sound plan if you can draft well.
If you keep finding/obtaining guys like Herb/Trey/Jose/Naji/Dyson that all may be good and get solid 2nd contracts, no team, other than those like Golden St who can spend 100s of millions in the tax, can keep all of their players when they hit on a few in a row in a short span. It's nothing new that other teams don't deal with all the time. It's also something we'd have to address regardless of anything we've discussed above on who we should or should not trade. And even if you can argue to find a way to trade Zion or BI and make room for all those guys, you'll STILL have this issue with the next crop of draft picks we get in the future if/when we hit on some of those. It's just ongoing at all times.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:29 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:Assuming that whoever you get for him becomes at least a second level star.
Letting BI go gives you space to field a significantly better team in the long term.
Its really that simple.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:30 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:What would another max slot get us? We are not a FA destination.
Because with the 15M savings you potentially could filter through another Max slot if you filled roster spots 8-15 with cheap contracts.
So instead of just BI and Zion you can now have Scoot/Zion/insert Max player here for at least 3 years.
You still need a center which is 15M minimum
You still need to pay Jose which who knows how much that will be.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:32 pm to NOSHAU
quote:And to be realistic, we're not even a trade destination either.
What would another max slot get us? We are not a FA destination.
Like it or not, players have say in where they get traded, or players of that caliber do at least.
And it's highly doubtful NO will ever be a destination.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:32 pm to 50_Tiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/15/23 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 6/15/23 at 1:48 pm to NOSHAU
Wow this thread has blown up lol
Posted on 6/15/23 at 2:03 pm to shel311
Griff created the cap flexibility issue when he extended CJ and Nance. CJs extension was absolutely mismanaged yet it was blessed by majority of this board because MM wrote so.
Trading for Henderson makes little sense when you have a point you already paying north of 30 million. I will acknowledged that I have never seen Scoot play. Scoot seems to a combo of Ja and D-Rose. If you did not have a high salaried point with three more years on his contract then Henderson makes some sense.
I don't know about Scoot passing and shooting skills but I have seen CJ enough to know his skills. There is no way CJ and Scoot can play extended minutes together There is no way Griff sits CJ with his hefty contract. Also we drafted two points over the last three years.
To get Scoot, the team will be weaken by the trade of Z or BI. Pels hired a new offensive minded coach. If the trade happens how does Scoot fit the new offensive scheme. Is he ball dominant or an assist machine?
Trading for Henderson makes little sense when you have a point you already paying north of 30 million. I will acknowledged that I have never seen Scoot play. Scoot seems to a combo of Ja and D-Rose. If you did not have a high salaried point with three more years on his contract then Henderson makes some sense.
I don't know about Scoot passing and shooting skills but I have seen CJ enough to know his skills. There is no way CJ and Scoot can play extended minutes together There is no way Griff sits CJ with his hefty contract. Also we drafted two points over the last three years.
To get Scoot, the team will be weaken by the trade of Z or BI. Pels hired a new offensive minded coach. If the trade happens how does Scoot fit the new offensive scheme. Is he ball dominant or an assist machine?
Posted on 6/15/23 at 2:12 pm to ErikGordan
quote:
I don't know about Scoot passing and shooting skills but I have seen CJ enough to know his skills. There is no way CJ and Scoot can play extended minutes together There is no way Griff sits CJ with his hefty contract. Also we drafted two points over the last three years.
You have never watched Scoot play yet you know for certain he can't play at the same time as CJ?
You also seem to forget that CJ played the 2 most of his career and can do so easily.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 3:14 pm to ErikGordan
You cannot draft , especially at the top of the draft , with your current players in mind unless you truly believe you are one player away or at least have shown ti be a real contender .
Rosters turn over way too fast in the nba . If there is a potential i star in the draft that’s gettable you can’t say yeah but we have this other 32 year old guard who’s pretty nice player on a .500 team .
Rosters turn over way too fast in the nba . If there is a potential i star in the draft that’s gettable you can’t say yeah but we have this other 32 year old guard who’s pretty nice player on a .500 team .
Posted on 6/15/23 at 3:45 pm to Mickey Goldmill
This is a really bad take considering CJ has played really well with a less talented smaller Alvarado.
Posted on 6/15/23 at 4:33 pm to DallasTiger45
quote:
If we offer him 4 for 22 million this offseason, you don’t think there’s a chance he takes it, even if it’s less than the open market could get him? An extra 20 million guaranteed is tough to pass up for a guy with his career earnings and a somewhat tenuous spot in the league
There's no reason Naji can't fill a role that Josh Hart does - somewhere else.
Hart is basically Naji's ceiling. I can't see us paying him OR having minutes for him to make paying him worth it.
Like Hart - love the guy. The NBA would be a better product with more players like them.
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