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Message
re: Omer Asik ain't pretty but
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:13 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:13 pm to brmark70816
quote:If they don't know who Asik is, then they probably don't watch much basketball. I'm not saying he's a star player, but he's well-known in the NBA.
No. I'm not. Most people that watch basketball have no idea who Asik is. They think he is white stiff and probably from Russia. He doesn't have a huge name or reputation, no matter his grand accomplishments with the Rockets.
And what does that have to do with anything anyway?
quote:First of all, Bill Simmons was joking about how Houston was handling the Asik situation with him asking for a trade. He wasn't saying Asik isn't a good player.
He was on the trade block for a year. No one was chasing after him. The only team that even made you an offer were the Celtics. Here is the section from when B. Simmons talked about Asik (and Lin) in his worst contracts in the NBA column earlier this year ..
Secondly, you don't know who was chasing after him. Nobody knows any details.
But do you know what Asik was traded for this summer?
A top 3 protected first-round draft pick, Trevor Ariza, and two players who were flipped for Jason Terry and two 2nd round draft picks.
That's a pretty nice haul for somebody you think sucks and nobody wanted.
quote:He fit with the team just fine. After the Rockets got Dwight Howard, Asik was then the back-up. He didn't want to be the back-up. He asked to be traded.
I know, I know. He bailed your team out. I have no idea how this helps the Pelicans or makes us a better team. You keep skipping over that part. You just figure he has to fit with our team, although he didn't fit with yours. Btw, why is that?
So he was traded.
It wasn't about fit... it was about playing time. And you know that.
0
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:15 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
So answer my point about Dwight. Do you think he's a good free throw shooter? Whats the difference between looking at Free Throws made as the mark of a good free throw shooter versus PPG as the mark of a good offense?
No, of course not. He doesn't shot a good %. I don't get the correlation. Teams that score a lot of points have good offenses. I believe that is something that bears out, especially if you are using team totals in a historical sense. I'm sure there are exceptions, but it's how I judge a team's offensive performance. If last year, the Heat score 100 ppg and the Pacers 90 ppg, wouldn't you just assume that the Heat have a better offense? Would you really have to go to the next level to determine that?
quote:
Look, you are entitled to your opinion about Asik or whatever. But you brought up stats and then you are being ridiculous about it.
I was egging on a Houston fan. I admitted it and even gave him props for his points. I don't see the harm in it. I wasn't trying to be ridiculous and I think I made some valid points. Not sure why you felt some personally offended. But I have been enjoying this thread.
quote:
But you are the one actually bringing up the stats. And its just absolutely ridiculous to judge defense or offense without making a pace adjustment.
I made broad generalizations based off of simple stats. It's what guys do when they argue about teams and how good they are. I work in a facility with over 300 guys. When we talk sports or teams, we talk match ups, what a guy did, etc. We don't go to the next level. It's not necessary. I don't even know why it made a difference. We were arguing or debating about the 2012 Rockets. It just didn't matter that much..
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:17 pm to brmark70816
quote:As a fan of the Rockets, I'm not exactly the most beloved posters on this board.
This is just too funny. I have backed up everything I have said this thread, which is basically me and a Houston fan going back and forth. It has never gotten personal and I'm thinking there is a lot of good back and forth. But you get offended and decide to attack me for some unknown reason. Did I rebuke one of your friends on here? He called you for back up?
Careful with how you respond. I'm not one of the most experienced posters on here. But I know I can't attack people for no reason..
So if several Pelicans fans have come into this thread and disagree with you and agree with what I posted, then it's safe to say you must have said something pretty silly.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:22 pm to brmark70816
quote:
brmark70816
This guy has to be one of the dumbest human beings to ever talk about basketball. Asik was viewed as an elite defensive center even with Chicago. He was playing behind Noah, and stats showed the bench unit was actually better defensively than their starters, who were also great.
He alone kept Houston's defense somewhat respectable when he was on the floor. He became expendable when Houston got one of the 3 or 4 guys better than Asik. And to one of your other points, it makes no sense to play those guys together.
Bill Simmons has a great memory of the history of basketball, but he gets embarrassed any time he talks to smart basketball people. He's really not a smart basketball mind at all. Also, blocked shots don't always equal great defender. Tyson Chandler was never an elite shot blocker. There is this thing called position defense. Many shot blockers are guys who get out of position to go for blocks.
To the guy who said something about Asik making things harder for AD, Asik is actually the person responsible for freeing AD up to become the most destructive weak side defender in the sport.
This post was edited on 12/6/14 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:31 pm to landrywasbeast30
br mark is hitting you fellas where it hurts
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:34 pm to PrimeTime Money
He said a bunch of dumb sh!t, and is now trying to cover his backside by saying he was just messing with a Houston fan. I feel bad that you put so much time into debating this idiot.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:37 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
This guy has to be one of the dumbest human beings to ever talk about basketball
Another sniper and fan club member.
quote:
Asik was viewed as an elite defensive center even with Chicago. He was playing behind Noah, and stats showed the bench unit was actually better defensively than their starters, who were also great
Before any replies to anymore of my posts, will some one please show me where I said that Asik was bad at defense. Please. Just one quote or something. I have actually said that I know he is a good defender. I just don't think it's that big of a deal.
quote:
He's really not a smart basketball mind at all.
He is smarter than me and since he makes a nice living at analyzing basketball, probably smarter than you at it. Sorry..
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:41 pm to OceanMan
There is this thing Adam Carolla says about people who say dumb sh!t. Either they are stupid, or a liar. On message boards, that same theory becomes stupid or troll. This theory is in play with brmark70816.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:45 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
There is this thing Adam Carolla says about people who say dumb sh!t. Either they are stupid, or a liar. On message boards, that same theory becomes stupid or troll. This theory is in play with brmark70816.
You are proof of that. So you have my attention now. So let's get into it.
You just called Asik elite. That means he is the best. Do you stand by that? You also just inferred that he is superior to Noah, are you going to stand by that as well?
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:49 pm to OceanMan
quote:
br mark is hitting you fellas where it hurts
I think our views are so different as to be incompatible. He hasn't changed our mind or made us feel wrong in our views any more than we have done with y'all. It seems kind of pointless to argue.
I will say that one point he has about the line up is worth discussing and that's can you really have about 55% of you cap tied up in a 3 big rotation that ensures one of them is never on the floor at crunch time. If you have to choose Ryno or Asik who do you choose? And Ryno playing terribly because he's being asked to carry the bench isn't making it any easier to answer.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:52 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Before any replies to anymore of my posts, will some one please show me where I said that Asik was bad at defense.
That point was in response to you are someone else saying Asik basically only had that one year in Houston as evidence to show how good he was defensively.
quote:
I have actually said that I know he is a good defender. I just don't think it's that big of a deal
Please stop.
quote:
and since he makes a nice living at analyzing basketball,
Skip Bayless also makes a living talking about sports. This doesn't make either of them an "analyst" or expert. Maybe you should check out the Simmons podcast where he went on a rant blasting the Wizards for trading for Gortat, and said the Wizards would regret it and fans would hate watching him play. The problem is, Simmons is the boss, so he never gets called on all the crap he spews, which is just about everything that comes out his mouth.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 7:57 pm to brmark70816
quote:
You just called Asik elite. That means he is the best. Do you stand by that? You also just inferred that he is superior to Noah, are you going to stand by that as well?
Elite defensively. And I said his unit with Chicago was statistically better than the starting unit, who were also great. Again, just a point to show it wasn't just in Houston.
And your response again points towards dumb or troll. I'm out.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:03 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
That point was in response to you are someone else saying Asik basically only had that one year in Houston as evidence to show how good he was defensively
Screw that, answer the question. If you want to pop in and try to shite all over me, then dodge, I have no respect for anything else you are going to say. I have never said Asik is bad at defense. Your next response..
quote:
Please stop.
Just shows you probably read half a page out of 6 and decided to take out your frustrations on a message board. You are taking my thoughts and responses, that I spent time and effort formulating, and just pissed all over them. Not cause you disagree, cause you clearly didn't read almost anything I said. But you did it cause you can and you figured you'd get a little cheering section behind you. It's just disappointing.
So congrats, You take over..
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:14 pm to brmark70816
#teambrmark. 
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:32 pm to Gtothemoney
If anyone doesn't get what Asik does to be considered an elite defender maybe this short video will help LINK
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:43 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Teams that score a lot of points have good offenses. I believe that is something that bears out, especially if you are using team totals in a historical sense. I'm sure there are exceptions, but it's how I judge a team's offensive performance. If last year, the Heat score 100 ppg and the Pacers 90 ppg, wouldn't you just assume that the Heat have a better offense? Would you really have to go to the next level to determine that?
I always looked at points per possession as a measure of the efficiency of an offense not necessarily the offenses ability to score. Like with us I could expect a 130 point game any night, but the way we get to that amount of points may be by taking less efficient shots and getting hot and making all of them. As opposed to a team like last years pacers at the 90ppg example you used, again this is all hypothetical numbers, they may not have the ability to put up as many points but their offense is much more efficient in the way they get those 90 ppg, so, hypothetically, they have an adjusted 103 points per 100 possessions over us who might have a 101 points per 100 possessions
So the point I'm trying to make, is That I agree with you in that ppg is a better metric for a good offense than points per 100 possession. And that points per possession is a better metric for the efficiency of an offense
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:52 pm to unibrownation
So this thread seems rather long for no reason. Two things we know about Omer Asik:
1. Asik is an elite rim defender, his time in chicago up til now shows that as well with how players are shooting poorly against him on the inside.
2. He is an offensive liability, true. Guess who else is? DeAndre Jordan. Guess what? Teams don't care to have a center that is elite on offense if they have other players that can generate points. You don't need to run offenses/plays through him, all he needs to do is get offensive boards and putbacks.
In 27mpg, Omer Asik averages 5.8 shots a game, 3.8 offensive boards (10.5 total), 50.7 fg%. That is exactly what we need from him and someone like DeJuan Blair is not going to do that for you for "half the cost". Rebound #s =/= good defensive center.
1. Asik is an elite rim defender, his time in chicago up til now shows that as well with how players are shooting poorly against him on the inside.
2. He is an offensive liability, true. Guess who else is? DeAndre Jordan. Guess what? Teams don't care to have a center that is elite on offense if they have other players that can generate points. You don't need to run offenses/plays through him, all he needs to do is get offensive boards and putbacks.
In 27mpg, Omer Asik averages 5.8 shots a game, 3.8 offensive boards (10.5 total), 50.7 fg%. That is exactly what we need from him and someone like DeJuan Blair is not going to do that for you for "half the cost". Rebound #s =/= good defensive center.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 9:14 pm to brmark70816
So what is your actual beef with Asik?
You say he isnt offensively inclined. Why is that a problem? Davis takes 17 shots a game, Evans 16, Holiday and Anderson 14 a piece. There are no available shots for an offensively inclined center on this team. In regards to offensive NBA centers, there are like 5 guys who anyone would consider a threat offensively.
Your gripe about "one way players" is dumb, especially at the center position, as most are defensive guys. Dont you think that should be the #1 quality in a big man? You need them to defend the post, be legit at defending the P&R, help defense, stop penetrators etc.. All stuff that Asik does well.
What else does he do well? He bangs with the 7 footers every night so our best player doesnt have to take that beating over a 82 game stretch. He allows Davis more room to roam and defend, knowing Asik is there protecting the basket. How many times have we seen Davis reject a mid range jumper and our teams gets out in transition and scores quickly (often times an oop to AD).
Im the same breath, you want to compare AFA at SF to Asik at center. You really think you can compare two guys at separate positions, positions that a player is asked to do different things. Again, you need offensive output from a SF. There are like 2 guys who can hang their hat on being shutdown SFs in the league without the need to score points. Aminu is not one of those guys.
As for the money-- he makes $8m. What if I told you the following centers make more than Asik
Kendrick Perkins
Jordan Hill
Anderson Varejao
Larry Sanders
Javale McGee
Andrea Bargnani
Nikola Peckovic
Bogut
Nene
So you are paying $8m to a guy who is 6th in the league in RPG, great offensive rebounder (hello 2nd chance shots and put backs: creating offense!), 4th in rebounds per 48 min, elite at FG% at the rim, all while checking down the other teams big man and allowing AD to be a freak defensively all over the court... All for the price of the 22nd highest paid center in the NBA. Who really gives a shite what RoLo makes.. it's irrelevant at this point.
You can have an opinion on Asik, but nothing I read on here knocking him will convince me that he is anyway a detriment to this team. It's like people bitching about Drew Brees; look around the NFL and look at some of those QBs.. you could have Colt McCoy or Shaun Hill starting for you. Just like our center could be Zaza Pachulia or Koustos Koufos or some shite. Give me a break
You say he isnt offensively inclined. Why is that a problem? Davis takes 17 shots a game, Evans 16, Holiday and Anderson 14 a piece. There are no available shots for an offensively inclined center on this team. In regards to offensive NBA centers, there are like 5 guys who anyone would consider a threat offensively.
Your gripe about "one way players" is dumb, especially at the center position, as most are defensive guys. Dont you think that should be the #1 quality in a big man? You need them to defend the post, be legit at defending the P&R, help defense, stop penetrators etc.. All stuff that Asik does well.
What else does he do well? He bangs with the 7 footers every night so our best player doesnt have to take that beating over a 82 game stretch. He allows Davis more room to roam and defend, knowing Asik is there protecting the basket. How many times have we seen Davis reject a mid range jumper and our teams gets out in transition and scores quickly (often times an oop to AD).
Im the same breath, you want to compare AFA at SF to Asik at center. You really think you can compare two guys at separate positions, positions that a player is asked to do different things. Again, you need offensive output from a SF. There are like 2 guys who can hang their hat on being shutdown SFs in the league without the need to score points. Aminu is not one of those guys.
As for the money-- he makes $8m. What if I told you the following centers make more than Asik
Kendrick Perkins
Jordan Hill
Anderson Varejao
Larry Sanders
Javale McGee
Andrea Bargnani
Nikola Peckovic
Bogut
Nene
So you are paying $8m to a guy who is 6th in the league in RPG, great offensive rebounder (hello 2nd chance shots and put backs: creating offense!), 4th in rebounds per 48 min, elite at FG% at the rim, all while checking down the other teams big man and allowing AD to be a freak defensively all over the court... All for the price of the 22nd highest paid center in the NBA. Who really gives a shite what RoLo makes.. it's irrelevant at this point.
You can have an opinion on Asik, but nothing I read on here knocking him will convince me that he is anyway a detriment to this team. It's like people bitching about Drew Brees; look around the NFL and look at some of those QBs.. you could have Colt McCoy or Shaun Hill starting for you. Just like our center could be Zaza Pachulia or Koustos Koufos or some shite. Give me a break
Posted on 12/6/14 at 9:26 pm to GynoSandberg
My man
Posted on 12/6/14 at 10:25 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
GynoSandberg
Excellent post.
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