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Message
re: NBA Offseason officially kicks off, Ingram’s days in NOLA coming to an end per Stein
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:35 am to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:35 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Allen/Strus for BI is pretty much an even money trade.
Where are you geting $15-20M in cap space from
For 1 year yes....
For any additional years we would otherwise be stuck with BI at 45-50mil no.
0
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:37 am to ghost2most
quote:
Not crazy about a Rockets trade because it doesn't give us what we need most - PG or C.
You had me until this part. Jabari would be a great small ball 5 imo.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Remove Dyson and i'd consider doing that trade, and I'd actually rather resign BI than do that trade.
Agreed. There seems to be a contingent of fans who think that the worst case scenario this offseason is bringing back BI. Though it’s not ideal, bringing back BI on a reasonable deal is not the end of the world and much better than making a panic trade that handcuffs us financially and costs us assets. I’d rank the scenarios from best to worst as:
1. Trade BI for pieces that better fit with our current roster and give us ability to keep Trey
2. Resign BI to a reasonable deal that allows us to rehab his value and trade him later
3. Resign BI to a deal that is an overpay
4. Trade BI with other valuable assets for pieces that make us marginally better but lowers our future ceiling and flexibility
Obviously scenario 3 would be extremely disappointing and I’d hate it, but trading BI just to trade him could be worse.
*I don’t want to get into BI signing a max deal. I don’t see anyway that happens, but clearly that would be tied for worst case scenario
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:45 am to Baron
quote:
2. Resign BI to a reasonable deal that allows us to rehab his value and trade him later
What is reasonable? 25mil? Dude isn't going to take less than 40mil minimum.
If he isn't going to shoot 3's (play the role we want him to) then his arse will sit on the bench and pout like the end of the season.
More importantly we HAVE to find how to maximize Zion and the people around him. BI hurts that greatly. 1 for not buying in and 2 for taking up space that would otherwise allow us yo find and play those guys.
Most importantly we have wasted 3 years with a BI/ Zion set up. We can NOT waste a whole other season while knowing there needs to be change.
That's why some still think "less" is more. Even if we take a step back without him it should paint a clear picture of what we need to do as a franchise going forward.
We can't do that and give Hawk/ Dyson/ Herb/ Trey/ Zion what they need with BI.
And the worst part is that its simply BI's fault. He doesn't like the role we need him to play.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:48 am to Dantheman504
quote:
2. Resign BI to a reasonable deal that allows us to rehab his value and trade him later
No way in hell I take that risk.
BI is an injury waiting to happen like Lonzo. He could end up with a bruised toe and miss 50 games.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:52 am to Dantheman504
Its really simple.
We have Herb/ Trey.
BI/ Z doesn't work.
Get rid of BI.
2 needs: C and PG
CJ needs to be replaced with a younger him and a PG eventually.
1st step is giving Hawkins and Dyson the damn minutes to develop and see what we have.
Have to make a decision on Jose.
CJ contract extension was good from a "player value" standpoint but not good from a "future salary" standpoint. We saw a glimpse of what Herb/ Trey could provide, we should have waited to pay him but that's hindsight. On a positive note he is still a very good asset at 30mil and we can still find s trade to assist.
But you do that after getting BI of this damn team and trying to fill the (2) other voids first.
We have Herb/ Trey.
BI/ Z doesn't work.
Get rid of BI.
2 needs: C and PG
CJ needs to be replaced with a younger him and a PG eventually.
1st step is giving Hawkins and Dyson the damn minutes to develop and see what we have.
Have to make a decision on Jose.
CJ contract extension was good from a "player value" standpoint but not good from a "future salary" standpoint. We saw a glimpse of what Herb/ Trey could provide, we should have waited to pay him but that's hindsight. On a positive note he is still a very good asset at 30mil and we can still find s trade to assist.
But you do that after getting BI of this damn team and trying to fill the (2) other voids first.
This post was edited on 6/20/24 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:52 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Most importantly we have wasted 3 years with a BI/ Zion set up. We can NOT waste a whole other season while knowing there needs to be change.
Zion didn't play at all 3 years ago.
He played in 29 games last year.
We finally get him healthy, plays like a fatass for the first 25 games, then plays awesome, then gets hurt at the most important time of the year.
The waste of the last 3 years was b/c of him, not BI. We were really good this year when they were both healthy.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:53 am to Dantheman504
Agree.
Your future is Zion, Trey, Herb, Dyson, Hawkins and Jose. I include Jose. I think he's an asset worth keeping.
The rest of the roster is just stuff to use to get better a C and PG.
Your future is Zion, Trey, Herb, Dyson, Hawkins and Jose. I include Jose. I think he's an asset worth keeping.
The rest of the roster is just stuff to use to get better a C and PG.
This post was edited on 6/20/24 at 11:55 am
Posted on 6/20/24 at 11:55 am to TeddyPadillac
From ingrams perspective: imagine hearing folks say it should be Zions team, and the dude shows up to camp out of shape, while you've been busting arse all offseason and have a chip on your shoulder from team USA.
I'd probably double down on what works for me vs giving the team to Zion and changing my game for a dude that doesn't commit like he should.
I'd probably double down on what works for me vs giving the team to Zion and changing my game for a dude that doesn't commit like he should.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:03 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
From ingrams perspective: imagine hearing folks say it should be Zions team, and the dude shows up to camp out of shape, while you've been busting arse all offseason and have a chip on your shoulder from team USA.
I'd probably double down on what works for me vs giving the team to Zion and changing my game for a dude that doesn't commit like he should.
Eh, busted his arse so much that he failed to play within the team and got benched for fricking Josh Hart?
Life and sports are not fair and talent always gets more chances.
Ingram might not like it, but Zion is world's more talented.
You have to have enough self awareness to see that your game is outdated and you're not achieving anything.
BI can be pissed that Zion hasn't committed to being in shape. That's valid. But he also needs to realize that he's simply not good enough to lead the team and that if he wants to win, he has to adjust his game to fit around Zion. But not just around Zion, around the modern NBA.
Dude plays ball like it's 1996.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:04 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I'd probably double down on what works for me vs giving the team to Zion and changing my game for a dude that doesn't commit like he should.
On the surface yes its understandable from BI's perspective.
From the NBA's perspective the league is a 3's league now. And BI is a prime example of NOT being that guy. Those guys are more expensive now.
The money is going to unstoppable C/PF + 3&D players.
BI is neither.
And again its his fault for making a business decision to not maximize his own value with 3's/ defense.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:18 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Zion didn't play at all 3 years ago.
He played in 29 games last year.
We finally get him healthy, plays like a fatass for the first 25 games, then plays awesome, then gets hurt at the most important time of the year.
The waste of the last 3 years was b/c of him, not BI. We were really good this year when they were both healthy.
We were really good until it actually mattered or contenders actually locked in... Which means we really aren't "really good".
We also broke an NBA record... 0-24 when trailing going into the 4th quarter. Yeah coaching should get alot of blame for that but there's a good chance the actual system/ scheme/ identity is truly broken as well.
You do not "run that back" under any circumstances.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:20 pm to Dantheman504
A lot of that 0-24 is because BI/CJ are terrible in the last two minutes of games.
Clear out, ISO, contested fadeaway.
Clear out, ISO, contested fadeaway.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:21 pm to ghost2most
No PG is the issue.
But yes its an actual identity/ personel thing regardless of BI's value and potential.
But yes its an actual identity/ personel thing regardless of BI's value and potential.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:21 pm to ghost2most
quote:
Ingram might not like it, but Zion is world's more talented.
He knows that.
And you started seeing that more later in the season.
It's been up to Zion to take that from him, he just took 4.5 years to do so. BI always knew that was going to happen.
BI took the least amount of shots per game this year since he's been here, 3 less than last year, but he didn't sacrifice anythign for Zion huh.
BI/Zion/CJ all took 16 shots per game this year, Trey took 11
First 37 games last year, when Zion was actually playing even though he missed 8 of those 37:
CJ 18
Zion 16
BI 15
Trey 9
Rest of that season:
BI 20
CJ 18
Trey 12
Y'all act like BI doesn't want to concede to Zion, or makes no sacrifices for him to be the lead guy.
Zion hasn't taken it away from him b/c of Zion, not BI.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:24 pm to ghost2most
quote:
A lot of that 0-24 is because BI/CJ are terrible in the last two minutes of games.
Clear out, ISO, contested fadeaway.
sure, let's not blame Zion at all
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:25 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Y'all act like BI doesn't want to concede to Zion, or makes no sacrifices for him to be the lead guy
I'd prefer a player that doesn't dribble out 20/24 seconds of the shot clock.
I'd also rather a player who takes an open 3 > choosing to take a 20' contested side step 2.
(Regardless of if he's good at it or plays well)
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:27 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
If we sell Dyson now when he's cheap I'm gonna melt
I’m willing to include Hawk if we have to include him if another team absolutely has to have a young player, but I’m not including Dyson. It would have be for a deal for a true superstar.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:27 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
We were really good until it actually mattered or contenders actually locked in... Which means we really aren't "really good".
Is that why we had one of the better records in the league against teams over .500?
quote:
We also broke an NBA record... 0-24 when trailing going into the 4th quarter. Yeah coaching should get alot of blame for that but there's a good chance the actual system/ scheme/ identity is truly broken as well.
I blame Willie, Zion, and BI for that, in that order.
Zion is our best player. He gets the blame and the praise first.
quote:
You do not "run that back" under any circumstances.
I don't disagree. I just don't think it 100% has to be BI that is moved. If we can get basically the same return for CJ as we can for BI, then move CJ. ANd i think this team needs an actual PG more than anything, b/c CJ isn't a PG.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 12:29 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
sure, let's not blame Zion
Zion needs to work on his ball security, loose dribbles, shooting. That's it.
CJ and BI ISO 100% were the culprits for alot of that.
We didnt have a PG so they were forced into that role but they also showed they could not handle it.
Can't be blamed for it but definitely not the damn solution.
CJ also CHOSE to shoot in alot of those situations instead of giving Zion the ISO. That's honestly my biggest beef with him over anything else.
Congrats on improving your PG duties but you better give the fricking ball to Zion in crunch time and it needs to be as fast as you can.
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