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gotiger
LSU Fan
Delray Beach, FL
Member since Feb 2009
2265 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

I have said this in other threads, but Kira's real offensive value is in the pick and roll. Last season, Kira + Jaxson had a very nice +/- together. This summer, however, Kira had no roll man. AP was just too slow to run P&R.



I keep seeing this, but ultimately if he only excels in the pick and roll then that may not be the best fit for this team. Realistically, are we going to run an offensive P&R set through Kira or any other guard for that matter majority of the game?

Does point Zion not exist? Does BI post ups not exist anymore. If you are the 3rd option at best on a team, your only value cannot come in the pick and roll. You better have other assets as the ball won't be in your hands time and time again.

He showed that his shooting still needs to improve as does his decision-making with the ball as he often gave away turnovers leading to transition baskets and many times he drove himself to bad spots on the court leading to him jumping under the goal looking for a pass. Being more patient with his drives and getting to spots on the floor that are beneficial to him and the team is a must.


Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
25780 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

I said it to start the season, that rookies that are good will get minutes early no matter what, and they may struggle, but during that struggle, you can still see their potential, and it's why they continue to get minutes to work through it. Sometimes they need a few games to kind of sit back and observe, maybe work on a few things before being thrusted back out there, but there's a reason Kira was basically the last 1st round pick to get a meaningful minute to start the season, and it's not b/c SVG doesn't like rookies, it's b/c he didn't look ready in practice playing with NBA talent like so many other rookies did that got early minutes.
So, I guess you're out on NAW, too?


ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2551 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

I keep seeing this, but ultimately if he only excels in the pick and roll then that may not be the best fit for this team. Realistically, are we going to run an offensive P&R set through Kira or any other guard for that matter majority of the game?



That's where I'm at too.

Seems like you really have to tailor lineups and put Kira in a very specific situation for him to be effective. That's not really an encouraging sign imo.

Yes, good players need their skillsets to be optimized but they can still be effective otherwise.

We're basically saying, yeah Kira isn't that good but we just need to play him with a very specific lineup and just PNR over and over. That's not encouraging imo.

If he was really good, he should be able to dominate Summer League and not need all this optimization.
This post was edited on 8/18 at 8:45 am


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
55668 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
To be fair to Teddy he was the first, and for a while only one trying to drag us back to reality regarding Kira and it looks like he was right.

For Kira to be a long term piece, even off the bench, he needs to be as good off ball as he is running a P&R. In the Summer League game against the Cavs he did just that and scored 22 points. I'm not saying he needs to score 20 off the bench, but I was shocked when I looked at the box score and saw he had that many points. It was a quiet 22 because he did a lot of his scoring off ball. IIRC he was 3 of 4 on 3s with 2 of those come from spotting up and Trey getting the ball to him.
This post was edited on 8/18 at 8:46 am


Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
25780 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
Yeah, I'm definitely not high on Kira at the moment. As a second year player in Summer League, and a primary ball handler, he should've shown more than he did, IMO.

My point was that NAW got less playing time his first season than Kira did, and most of us are expecting a big year from him in his third year. Not to say that I think Kira is going to have the same arc, just that limited playing time in your first year isn't necessarily a predictor to future years.

Look at someone like CJ McCollum. He barely played in his first 2 seasons, and then scored nearly 21 ppg in his third. Hoping that NAW can have a similar arc.


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10
LSUJD_04
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2021
1328 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
It’s still a little early to completely call Kira a non factor but he’s got a long long way to go that he probably will never get there. He’s very fast and he’s actually not that bad as an on ball defender because he can stay with anyone because of his speed. His shot is just not good though besides his floater and he’s small. If he can shoot 37%-40% from 3 he’d have a nice career but he’s got to improve this year and he’s going to get every chance as one of the 2 main backup guards.


CelticDog
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2015
35463 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
kira is 6 1.

comps suggested in other threads are Devin harris and Leondre Barbosa.
both 6 3".

we've seen this before.

sometimes the little guys figure it out.
some just bounce out to moscu or Shanghai.

if palming and carry were called all the time then kira becomes a killer on defense. not with 6 8" pgs allowed to carry and lebron does 5 steps!!


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03
GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
68455 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
Image: https://i.postimg.cc/DyJqhqQP/Screen-Shot-2021-08-18-at-9-24-01-AM.png



I dont beleive they are even similar players, but do we believe Fox was good his rookie year? DF was trash his rookie year, he was one of the worst full time, offensive players in the league. Being overreactionary and hot takey after Fox's rookie year wouldve been a bad look

I believe we have to give Kira more than 54 games, ya?



shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
87281 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

so where's all the folks saying Kira could be D'Aron Fox one day now?

amazes me how i come up with an idea based on my observations, get told i'm wrong by almost everyone
The idea that "almost everyone" said Kira would be as good as Fox is just a bit overstated.
This post was edited on 8/18 at 9:37 am


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
55668 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
I think one trap people fall into is thinking players need to be strong enough to lift Zion and Ingram up. Everyone else on the roster are tools for Zion/BI to use. Kira doesn't need to be D'Aron Fox. He needs to make the defense react to him to get Zion easy looks.


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31
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NawlinsTiger9
New Orleans Saints Fan
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
31516 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

The idea that "almost everyone" said Kira would be as good as Fox is just a bit overstated.



Right

I think most of us are thinking/hoping that Kira can be a competent change of pace 6th man that can contribute in a few different lineups

For the record, I’ve been extremely high on him, and I’m not bailing because a few rough outings in summer league.



duyp
Member since May 2011
1751 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
I’m rooting for Kira also. But I still can’t believe we passed up on Saddiq Bey.


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TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
19695 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

The idea that "almost everyone" said Kira would be as good as Fox is just a bit overstated.



you're right. a bit overstated.

All i did was point out how odd I thought it was that he wasn't getting any run to start the season, and how uncommon that is for a guy that eventually becomes a high quality nba player. You expect rookies to struggle, but you let them work through those struggles on the court as much as you can, assuming it isn't so bad that its causing you to lose multiple games, and that assumes you're a playoff team, or at least trying to make the playoffs.
And i always said it was way too early to call him a bust or anything close to that, and i still think he can be a good player in the league, i just dont' see him being a starter, at least not anytime soon or really ever for a championship level team. I mean DJ Augustine isn't a bad player. He could start for someone at his peak, but he wasn't going to be a starter on a deep playoff type team. Doesn't mean he can't be a big contributor to a deep playoff team as a backup. Collison was the same way. Payne seems to be following that same path as well.

And i wouldn't look at Fox's stats his rookie year to make any assessments. You dont' expect most rookies to be good their first season, but do you actually see with your own eyes when you actually watch them, the potential they have? Do you see flashes of what they can be? Are there games where they stand out, even in the summer league.
We've yet to really see that from Kira. We saw that from NAW and Jaxson, despite them not playing as much as you'd expect. When NAW was given heavy minutes, same as this year, he looked better. We are all here, and have been here talking about NAW and Jaxson's potential. It's b/c we know what we see when they are out there. Yeah most rookies don't really break out until year 3, and that time is now for NAW, so we'll see what he's really made of this year hopefully.


GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
68455 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:


And i wouldn't look at Fox's stats his rookie year to make any assessments. You dont' expect most rookies to be good their first season, but do you actually see with your own eyes when you actually watch them, the potential they have? Do you see flashes of what they can be? Are there games where they stand out, even in the summer league.




Of course, pick and choose when you want to reference stats. When the stats say differently, pivot to the “eye test”. You think you can just say guys like fox and NAW flashed at times as a rookie and Kira didn’t “really” we are supposed to buy your unquantifiable opinion on the players,.. that’s a nope from me dawg


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
19695 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
do what you want man. i'm just giving an opinion. Doesn't mean you have to accept it. Also doesn't mean i'm right.

I've never been big on stats. obviously everyone uses them, but you have to use your eyes as well, and too many people simply don't do that. And that's not me saying stats are useless by any means, b/c they are very important, but there are other factors to consider at times. You are the one that brought in stats of Fox and Kira. I was strictly giving my opinion of Kira based on what i saw, and how he was played.

Lonzo Ball is a better 3 point shooter than Pelicans Mirotic, so the stats would say. Lonzo was actually much better at catch and shoot 3's.
But which one would pretty much anyone say is the better 3 point shooter? Mirotic.
Which would gets followed around constantly and everyone on the court knows to pay attention to and not let him have open looks? Mirotic.
are you capable of seeing the difference there, b/c i feel like you wont' since i used Lonzo as an example. You can subsitute Etwaun Moore for Lonzo if you like.
Use your eyes and stop basing opinions solely on stats.
you saw what NAW and Jaxson did in the summer league. Kira came no where near that. You saw what Murphy just did. use your eyes. You didn't need to look at any summer league stats to tell you NAW and Jax could be special, same with Murphy.

It's ok to be wrong when giving your opinion. No one's perfect.


supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
4925 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
Another guy to look at is Schroeder. He struggled his first couple of seasons. I reckon Kira's development will be similar to Schroeder. It's going to take time for him to learn how to use his speed especially with the lack of physical size to take contact right now.

I also think how good he'll look depends on the lineup he's in. Yea he isn't ready to make a impact, but he should be ready to contribute off the bench.


GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
68455 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
For sure

For a 19 year old, I think he showed good awareness last season, all things considered. Not many teenage PGs protect the ball like Kira did. Small building block. I think he felt some pressure, probably from SVG, and never really just let it fly. Played timid. His main goal should be to find his niche to contribute and flash some progress.


Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
25780 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
I don't think you're wrong in your opinion about Kira, but I also don't think the playing time thing is a definitive indicator of that. Basically, your reasoning wasn't 100%, IMO, but your opinion was/is pretty accurate.


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
19695 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
quote:

For a 19 year old, I think he showed good awareness last season, all things considered. Not many teenage PGs protect the ball like Kira did. Small building block. I think he felt some pressure, probably from SVG, and never really just let it fly. Played timid. His main goal should be to find his niche to contribute and flash some progress.



nice opinion. 100% I agree.


ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2551 posts

re: Murphy and Jones stock up, Didi and Kira down
I just don't see anything with him that makes you go "wow!" like you did with NAW/Jax.

I guess occasionally he flies to a loose ball or something but there needs to be more than that to get me excited.


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