- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Lonzo Ball is now at 40% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 4:58 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Posted on 2/23/21 at 4:58 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Common sense also tells you a pass first player, which Lonzo is, will adjust to adjustments and find the open man.
And that could explain a bit, but I don't exactly see Lonzo passing up many three attempts do you?
And I don't really see Lonzo getting tightly shaded by defenders do you?
I think when the numbers and the eye test line up it's a pretty good indicator.
And like I said, 35% is not bad at all. And it's up a bit this year. Still, I would expect it to drop if defenses started making it a defensive priority.
And if defenses do adjust, that is where it will become critical for him to develop that drive game IMO.
0
Posted on 2/23/21 at 4:59 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Saying he can’t guard em is quite the sweeping generalization huh?
Agreed. Lonzo's pretty long too, but he's listed at 190. I wonder if adding about 10 more pounds of muscle would be what he needs to guard up better.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 5:09 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
If the general average % on 3pters league wide is 35-36%, I would think 35% on contested threes is much higher than league average, there for much better than "not that bad".
Like I said, not bad by any means, but also an incredibly small sample size that really isn't trustworthy for me. If it is for you, by all means, I'm not gonna stop you.
But for me its the equivalent of trusting Tristan Thompson is now a reliable stretch big because he has a 39% three-point rate on 9-23 over the last two seasons. Or Hassan is a three-point threat because he is 4-8 over two seasons.
Logic steps in and tells me that if all-time greats like Redick see a downtick when defenses more tightly contest, Lonzo is probably going to as well, and with it, his percentages will drop a bit.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 5:20 pm to Bronc
Not even sure why you are trying to compare Ball to a movement shooter like Redick. Redick was on his way out of the league at 23. He wasn't the deadly movement shooter you know today until later in his career.
As long as Ball continues to play well, the team isn't going to let him walk. Even if he's not in the long term plans, his value is ascending and will be an asset regardless of what his contract looks like. His contract will be part production and part potential. Do we know what it looks like now? Absolutely not, he has yet to plateau and there's a lot of games to evaluate him. Nothing is black and white at this time.
As long as Ball continues to play well, the team isn't going to let him walk. Even if he's not in the long term plans, his value is ascending and will be an asset regardless of what his contract looks like. His contract will be part production and part potential. Do we know what it looks like now? Absolutely not, he has yet to plateau and there's a lot of games to evaluate him. Nothing is black and white at this time.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 5:29 pm to supe12sta12z
Not sure why you think I am trying to compare them?
My post is about putting his recent shooting into a deeper context.
The examples were quick examples to show how teams have not adjusted to him as a threat as a shooter.
That if and when they do that, I would suspect his current efficiency to drop a bit. How much is speculative, small signs say it might not be so bad, but the sample size being so small I don't think I would go off it.
My post is about putting his recent shooting into a deeper context.
The examples were quick examples to show how teams have not adjusted to him as a threat as a shooter.
That if and when they do that, I would suspect his current efficiency to drop a bit. How much is speculative, small signs say it might not be so bad, but the sample size being so small I don't think I would go off it.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 5:38 pm to Bronc
And that's fine but you can't disregard how young he is as well. Ball transforming his shot in less than 2 years while having that funky form all his life is already extremely impressive by itself . He's still very early in new form. To say that he can't continue to get better shooting even with tight coverage overtime is disingenuous. The way his progression has gone since he's been here has to be respected at the very least. People are way to quick to throw rocks at him and overlook the things he's done. There's so much basketball left in this season and I'm not going to sit there and preach how limited he is or how unsustainable his shot is. I'm going to continue to evaluate him as the season progresses and if he continues to show consistency, there no reason why the Pelicans would let him walk. Way too much speculation on how much he wants. No one know for a fact outside of the front office right now.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:10 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
And that's fine but you can't disregard how young he is as well. Ball transforming his shot in less than 2 years while having that funky form all his life is already extremely impressive by itself . He's still very early in new form. To say that he can't continue to get better shooting even with tight coverage overtime is disingenuous.
No one is saying that though, but to just assume X or Y is going to get better, is to come at this discussion on paying Lonzo based on potential and not performance. I am in a camp that wants to see more before I'm willing to do that, specifically from the areas he hasn't shown much improvement, like his driving and half-court offense and facilitation, and would also like to see his efficiency after defenses adjust, before signing on with some of the people that are all in on paying on potential, let alone that think 20 million+ is a no brainer.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:15 pm to supe12sta12z
Not going to lie, alonzo has impressed me more recently.
I agree that he just stands at the 3 point line and isn't contested like other shooters
I agree that he just stands at the 3 point line and isn't contested like other shooters
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:23 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Lonzo Ball has seen dramatic spikes in trips to the foul line, three-point percentage in February. Among players who've made 40+ treys this month, he leads #NBA at 47.4%. As a result, #Pelicans have No. 1 offense over their past 12 games
quote:
You can watch the game tape, or ask the player himself, but there may be no better piece of evidence to illustrate the difference in Lonzo Ball’s offensive approach lately than this eye-opening statistic: The guard has attempted 23 free throws over a dozen February games, after taking just
in 10 January contests.
That surge in assertiveness is one element of Ball’s dramatic turnaround in production this month, a stretch leading to across-the-board improvements by the fourth-year pro. It’s also resulted in his head coach praising the point guard for his role in New Orleans boasting the NBA’s No. 1 offense in February, scoring 122.7 points per 100 possessions.
“It’s fantastic the last 12 to 15 games since we got off that West Coast trip,” Stan Van Gundy said of Ball’s performance since mid-January, when the UCLA product missed three games due to a knee injury. “Part of it is he had been hurting. He got healthy. I think that was a big part of it. He’s shooting the ball really well. He’s playing more aggressively offensively, trying to get in the paint more, pushing the ball faster in transition. That’s all been good.”
Ball not only looks like a different player in terms of driving to the rim and drawing more whistles, but he’s also been infinitely more effective from the perimeter. He shot 36/112 (32.1 percent) from three-point range in December and January combined, but is 45/95 (47.4 percent) in February. Among all NBA players who’ve made at least 40 three-pointers this month, his percentage leads the league, just ahead of Zach LaVine (46.7) and Steph Curry (44.6).
“I’m definitely feeling better as far as my legs,” Ball said after Tuesday’s practice, while giving credit to the New Orleans training staff for helping him get right physically.
Ball pointed to the Pelicans playing with more tempo as another factor behind his recent strong play. He’s been a greater presence in the team’s transition attack lately, while also seeming to get more open threes on fast breaks and in halfcourt sets. Statistically, New Orleans has not increased its pace in February, but the Pelicans have been much more effective at generating fast-break points, ranking just 16th through Jan. 31 (11.9 percent of their points), but third over their last 12 games (12.8 percent).
“We started getting on the break more and playing with more pace,” Ball said, also referring to the activity and movement New Orleans has displayed in halfcourt offense. “Early on we were trying to find our identity, trying to get good shots. Lately we’ve been doing that.”
Perhaps just as importantly to the Pelicans, who’ve struggled on defense all season, Ball is coming off one of his best games at that end of the floor. Over the past two games, he has five steals and two blocks.
“In the last game against Boston, not only did he defend well on the ball, but he was the most active I’ve seen him off the ball,” Van Gundy said. “He helped us save a lot of points, a lot of shots.”
Ball has been drawing some of the toughest individual defensive assignments, trying to stay attached to Phoenix’s Devin Booker and other top backcourt opponents.
“I’m just trying to be there night in and night out for my team,” Ball said. “They look to me to kind of slow down the best player on the other team, between me and (Josh) Hart. I’m just taking that challenge, doing the best I can to make those guys have a tough time scoring. To make their life as hard as possible for that night.”
Ball has often served as a barometer for his team’s performance this season. When he plays well, the Pelicans tend to win games, as evidenced by their 10-0 record when he has a plus-minus of at least plus-7. New Orleans is 9-5 when he scores at least 15 points and 5-2 when he makes at least half of his shots, including victories over Milwaukee and Phoenix.
“He’s playing at a very high level,” Van Gundy said Tuesday, “and we need that.”
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:34 pm to Bronc
I have a hard time believing teams are leaving him alone on purpose if he is making roughly 1.17 points/ 3 pt shot.
So two points
#1 I question the stat on the number of contested threes that Lonzo has shot this season.
#2 he is going to burn people bad as he is a good passer if they are going to change their defense to contest more of his threes. If Lonzo is getting open looks it is because they are trying to stop the unstoppable force of Zion and BI.
So two points
#1 I question the stat on the number of contested threes that Lonzo has shot this season.
#2 he is going to burn people bad as he is a good passer if they are going to change their defense to contest more of his threes. If Lonzo is getting open looks it is because they are trying to stop the unstoppable force of Zion and BI.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:42 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
I have a hard time believing teams are leaving him alone on purpose if he is making roughly 1.17 points/ 3 pt shot.
Believe it. Remember Darius Miller? On his 2nd tour of duty with the Pels he shot 41% from 3 on 6.6 shots per 36 minutes. He eventually made the opponent's scouting report, but that didn't happen until the 2nd half of the season.
Lonzo was probably close to getting there last season and then he shat the bed in the Bubble. If he keeps this up he'll start seeing fewer open looks after the All Star break, but he has to earn his way onto the opposing team's scouting report.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:52 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
I have a hard time believing teams are leaving him alone on purpose if he is making roughly 1.17 points/ 3 pt shot.
So two points
#1 I question the stat on the number of contested threes that Lonzo has shot this season.
I mean what do you think is more likely here? State of the art Synergy cameras and Ivy League stat collectors that the entirety of the league relies upon to gather credible information is wrong on just this one guy, or the eye test plus the numbers are in fact correct? That up to this point defenders have largely cheated off Lonzo because he was a non-factor to start the season before getting scorching hot?
I think his passing could help, a dribble penetration game would as well, and hopefully we see more of that too.
But the fact is he is eventually going to see more pressure as teams recalculate their strategy on him. And his numbers will probably come down a bit, and hopefully we get to see some of that readjustment sooner than later to get a feel for what the other side looks like, because we have a big decision to make in the next month.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 7:57 pm to Bronc
If he could dribble penetrate and finish at the basket then yeah I'd give him 15 mil easy.
I almost feel like it's a confidence thing
I almost feel like it's a confidence thing
Posted on 2/23/21 at 8:03 pm to Bronc
I am just saying 600 shots is a gigantic sample size for people just choosing to leave him open. Now I think everyone, but BI and Zion get left open a lot each game. So if he is getting left open it is not just trying to cheat they have just picked their poison that Zion and BI are unguardable. If that suddenly changes then Zion and BI will feast. So it is good either way.
It is obvious that there is a contingent in this thread have nega-tiger traits and can’t be happy when certain players have success.
I was beyond frustrated with his 3pt shooting along with others like Hart, Redick, and Melli. Lonzo has corrected so over the top that I feel we have to give him some credit until he proves us wrong. It is also promising to see elite success. It means their is potential in a young player. The same thing with that Clippers game with NAW. Some of the performances show there is something there. Preferring consistently mediocre is not better over young players with some inconsistency but have shown out.
It is obvious that there is a contingent in this thread have nega-tiger traits and can’t be happy when certain players have success.
I was beyond frustrated with his 3pt shooting along with others like Hart, Redick, and Melli. Lonzo has corrected so over the top that I feel we have to give him some credit until he proves us wrong. It is also promising to see elite success. It means their is potential in a young player. The same thing with that Clippers game with NAW. Some of the performances show there is something there. Preferring consistently mediocre is not better over young players with some inconsistency but have shown out.
This post was edited on 2/23/21 at 8:10 pm
Posted on 2/23/21 at 8:19 pm to Colonel Flagg
I mean obviously they’ve chosen that to this point because Lonzo has not shown consistency in his time in New Orleans. Started last year terribly, picked it up, finished terribly. Started this season off terribly, picked it up.....Not sure how this one ends yet.
The thing is that eventually defenses aren’t going to risk that. Teams will go from completely cheating off him and either not closing out(or only symbolically), to actually harassing him a bit. Doesn’t mean instantly Zion and Ingram are going to be free to feast, you can adjust in different ways.
And since we haven’t really even got to that point yet, I’m personally not ready to pencil him in as a permanent 39% three point shooter.
That’s not me shitting on him, that’s simply finding some important context and wanting to see what the inevitable other side looks like before I crown him with some of the declarations others have chosen. He’s come a long way in several key areas, no one is taking that away, but we also have to decide on whether he is a part of our future, and based on what the market ends up being, whether that price may be worth the risk.
The thing is that eventually defenses aren’t going to risk that. Teams will go from completely cheating off him and either not closing out(or only symbolically), to actually harassing him a bit. Doesn’t mean instantly Zion and Ingram are going to be free to feast, you can adjust in different ways.
And since we haven’t really even got to that point yet, I’m personally not ready to pencil him in as a permanent 39% three point shooter.
That’s not me shitting on him, that’s simply finding some important context and wanting to see what the inevitable other side looks like before I crown him with some of the declarations others have chosen. He’s come a long way in several key areas, no one is taking that away, but we also have to decide on whether he is a part of our future, and based on what the market ends up being, whether that price may be worth the risk.
This post was edited on 2/23/21 at 8:23 pm
Posted on 2/23/21 at 11:06 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
er way.
It is obvious that there is a contingent in this thread have nega-tiger traits and can’t be happy when certain players have success.
Shut the hell up.
No one is unhappy about a Pelican playing well and us winning.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 1:56 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
If he could dribble penetrate and finish at the basket then yeah I'd give him 15 mil easy.
I almost feel like it's a confidence thing
That's closer to a 25 mil player with Zo's other skillsets than a 15
Posted on 2/24/21 at 7:31 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
If he could dribble penetrate and finish at the basket then yeah I'd give him 15 mil easy.
he's already justified a $15M/year salary
that would bring him into max-level territory
Posted on 2/24/21 at 7:35 am to SlowFlowPro
I’m really gonna need someone to eventually walk me through how they think being able to shoot overwhelmingly wide open threes, defend guards above average, and hopefully one day successfully learning to attack and drive to the basket better than Brad Wanamaker and Dwayne Bacon turns Lonzo Ball not just into a more valuable player than Draymond Green, Jaylen Brown, Malcolm Brogdon, Nikola Vucevic, and Jrue Holiday, but a max player?
It’s not like people are asking Lonzo to be James Harden, Luka, or Trae driving to the hoop, just not literally the least efficient driving scorer last year and in the bottom 5 this year of players that played a majority of games and drive the ball 4 times per game.
Kira has barely played, is severely undersized weight wise, and scores the ball more efficiently and with less turnovers than Lonzo. That to me is frankly insane. That a 6’6 guard with a 6’9 wingspan is a worse scorer driving to the basket than 32 year old 6’0 Ish Smith and an undersized rookie.
It’s not like people are asking Lonzo to be James Harden, Luka, or Trae driving to the hoop, just not literally the least efficient driving scorer last year and in the bottom 5 this year of players that played a majority of games and drive the ball 4 times per game.
Kira has barely played, is severely undersized weight wise, and scores the ball more efficiently and with less turnovers than Lonzo. That to me is frankly insane. That a 6’6 guard with a 6’9 wingspan is a worse scorer driving to the basket than 32 year old 6’0 Ish Smith and an undersized rookie.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 7:56 am to Bronc
Don't be surprised when he gets between 20-25 mil this offseason. I'd wager he'd take up a similar % of the cap that Brown does
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 8:01 am
Page 12 of 17
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News