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re: Karlo is dominating the G-League
Posted on 11/18/24 at 11:28 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 11/18/24 at 11:28 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
What are you talking about?
They signed Theis thinking he could be a starting center. Please defend how you think Pelicans thought Theis had the talent to be the starter for this team. Yes they’ve drafted well but it took Griffin years to find a guy like Missi (center seemed to be a constant issue with this team) and they finally traded for a starting point guard (after years of guys like BI, CJ and Zion playing point).
We could also talk about how they have centered their whole team around two guys (Zion and BI) who don’t mesh together at all and the main guy has constant health issues with no development in his game. But yes they have unearthed great role players- unfortunately you’re not going to win many games if the best evaluation of your talent is honesty role guys (which they deserve credit for) but your stars aren’t really stars and it took years to find a starting center and point guard that helps you win. The Naji, Jose, Bostons will only get you so far.
This post was edited on 11/18/24 at 11:30 pm
4
Posted on 11/18/24 at 11:48 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
They signed Theis thinking he could be a starting center.
No they didn't. They signed him because he was the best fitting minimum center they could get that Willie would play. There's a reason we had so many posts, including many of mine, talking about starting a small ball lineup with the best 5 players. The Basketball Gods thought that one was especially funny.
The rest of the stuff you wrote is just you being mad at Griff because the team is losing. I'm not defending Griff the POBO, but when he stepped back and let Trajan and Bryson do their jobs, the results were different. Not perfect but actually pretty far above average.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 12:07 am to TigerinATL
quote:
No they didn't. They signed him because he was the best fitting minimum center they could get that Willie would play. There's a reason we had so many posts, including many of mine, talking about starting a small ball lineup with the best 5 players. The Basketball Gods thought that one was especially funny.
Ok lets go by your theory that Theis was the best minimum signing center that Willie could play. How has that worked out? The guy is getting DNPs. That was a clear failure and misevaluation of talent on Theis. By the way they did the same thing with Zeller- who also was a complete waste. And sure I get the small ball lineup stuff but a lot of that was due to Griff’s previous issues in finding a center to begin with. They went with small ball because they didn’t have a choice after failing to trade BI.
quote:
The rest of the stuff you wrote is just you being mad at Griff because the team is losing.
Sure but that doesn’t mean its not true. Just like he deserves credit for finding Missi or Boston he deserves blame for the issues with the stars on this team and not addressing certain positions for years. Me being mad has nothing to do whether Griff deserves the blame for it.
quote:
I'm not defending Griff the POBO, but when he stepped back and let Trajan and Bryson do their jobs, the results were different. Not perfect but actually pretty far above average.
This is all assumption. We have no understanding of the dynamics of him stepping back or not. We have no idea if this is how Griffin always operated or he changed it. At the end of day Griffin deserves some credit and he deserves a lot of blame as well. To me despite this “far above average in finding talent in role positions” from a win perspective we’re still a first round exit team. Again those guys can only take you so far.
For instance, from all those role guys Griffin or Trajan or Graham (whoever you want to credit) will turn into impact all star players for you? I honestly don’t think any will. Maybe Trey- but not really sure about him. They’re very good players who are great in their role- but thats it.
This post was edited on 11/19/24 at 12:12 am
Posted on 11/19/24 at 2:01 am to Pels_Yaz
I've seen enough of Karlo to know he's the most skilled center we've got. Maybe not the best, but the guy with the most versatility right now.
Normally I would assume that Matkovich couldn't get off the bench in preseason because the Coach saw him in practice and didn't think he was an NBA rotation center.
But then I remember that Dyson couldn't get off the bench for us for the playoffs either. The guy who now looks like the best defensive wing in the NBA and who scored 28 against the defending world champs to lead his new team to victory couldn't get any minutes for us in a playoff series a few months ago where we were getting beat down. Then I remember how often Trey sat in favor of playing Garett Temple or Josh Richardson. And I start to think maybe something else is going on here.
There's a kind of throwaway moment in the movie Money Ball that I always think should get more attention. After a fight with his chief scout, GM Billy Beane fires the guy then walks in a staff meeting and asks a young guy: "Did you ever play baseball?" When the kid says no, Beane replies "Congratulations. You're our new chief scout."
The joke is how damaging all the "unwritten rules" about who is good and who is not, who can play and who can't, can be for people who are marinated for years in a set way of doing things.
Sean Payton always like QBs who played like he did. Willie seems to favor journeyman who remind him of himself as a player. Herb can play, Hawkins can't. Dyson's too young. Karlo is a Euro.
As Peter Brand says in Money Ball: "Players are over looked for a variety of biased reasons and perceived flaws..."
Normally I would assume that Matkovich couldn't get off the bench in preseason because the Coach saw him in practice and didn't think he was an NBA rotation center.
But then I remember that Dyson couldn't get off the bench for us for the playoffs either. The guy who now looks like the best defensive wing in the NBA and who scored 28 against the defending world champs to lead his new team to victory couldn't get any minutes for us in a playoff series a few months ago where we were getting beat down. Then I remember how often Trey sat in favor of playing Garett Temple or Josh Richardson. And I start to think maybe something else is going on here.
There's a kind of throwaway moment in the movie Money Ball that I always think should get more attention. After a fight with his chief scout, GM Billy Beane fires the guy then walks in a staff meeting and asks a young guy: "Did you ever play baseball?" When the kid says no, Beane replies "Congratulations. You're our new chief scout."
The joke is how damaging all the "unwritten rules" about who is good and who is not, who can play and who can't, can be for people who are marinated for years in a set way of doing things.
Sean Payton always like QBs who played like he did. Willie seems to favor journeyman who remind him of himself as a player. Herb can play, Hawkins can't. Dyson's too young. Karlo is a Euro.
As Peter Brand says in Money Ball: "Players are over looked for a variety of biased reasons and perceived flaws..."
Posted on 11/19/24 at 8:22 am to New City Champ
I've seen enough Jemison, and Theis legit sucks. Karlo can't be worse than them.
If Karlo ends up being a rotation big then we arent as desperate at center with Missi and him
If Karlo ends up being a rotation big then we arent as desperate at center with Missi and him
Posted on 11/19/24 at 10:00 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I still remember Griff at media day spewing bullshite
If all you ever do is spit BS, then no one can hold you accountable to an actual position.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 11:42 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Wonder how long we keep him down there?
Probably until (1) of Zion/ CJ/ BI are traded.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 1:18 pm to New City Champ
New City Champ. I came to say everything you said, outstandingly well done. It’s true IMO we’ve seen it over and over with Willie - boneheaded stubbornness that is out of touch with reality and really not in line with how Griff speaks of the culture he wants to build. If he doesn’t change, It will get him fired one way or another because it affects winning.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 2:28 pm to klew5
I just think Willie's bias is for try-hard defenders and if they make a mistake, he can live with it. But if a guy is an offensive player who has lapses on defense--especially a young guy--it's the bench and the dog house.
On Karlo, of course we don't know if he play at a consistently high level in the NBA, but there's only one way to find that out. His skill set is very reminiscent of Euro bigs like Sabonis and Senguin, an ideal fit for a small-ball attack based on ball movement and shooting. He's got size and weight as well. The ultimate example of that kind of big is, of course, Jokic who, let's remember, was himself a second round pick once upon a time.
We aren't going to get that lucky, but I'd really like to see Karlo get some run especially while we are dealing with injuries, so we can at least make an informed decision on his potential based on a reasonable sample size.
BTW, I also really like Missi's potential. Together they could be a good change-up combo, with Karlo even sliding over to the PF slot for a big frontline if needed for certain match ups...
On Karlo, of course we don't know if he play at a consistently high level in the NBA, but there's only one way to find that out. His skill set is very reminiscent of Euro bigs like Sabonis and Senguin, an ideal fit for a small-ball attack based on ball movement and shooting. He's got size and weight as well. The ultimate example of that kind of big is, of course, Jokic who, let's remember, was himself a second round pick once upon a time.
We aren't going to get that lucky, but I'd really like to see Karlo get some run especially while we are dealing with injuries, so we can at least make an informed decision on his potential based on a reasonable sample size.
BTW, I also really like Missi's potential. Together they could be a good change-up combo, with Karlo even sliding over to the PF slot for a big frontline if needed for certain match ups...
This post was edited on 11/19/24 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 11/19/24 at 2:58 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Ok lets go by your theory that Theis was the best minimum signing center that Willie could play.
You say this as if the plan was for Theis to be the starter.
I'll say it for like the 10th time here, Theis lost his BACKUP ROLE in Indiana and LAC. He was demoted to 3rd string and racking up DNPs for both of them.
He was brought here to be the 3rd big, and sort of the 2nd until Missi took it from him.
Griff is an idiot. Always has been, always will be. Whether his plan was to trade BI for a starting 5, or to go small ball with just Missi/Theis, he's an idiot either way. Now he's got a worthless tax team that he needs to get under the tax, and he's yet to come close to seeing what the small ball of Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion can do, and we probably won't ever see it healthy this season. I was looking forward to what that small ball lineup could do, but that also doesnt mean I was ok with Miss/Theis as the only bigs on the team.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 4:01 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Griff is an idiot. Always has been, always will be. Whether his plan was to trade BI for a starting 5, or to go small ball with just Missi/Theis, he's an idiot either way.
This is my main point Griff had no plan. Hes an idiot. And yes I know Theis history and I knew he would be demoted. But he was the first string center when this season started- he wasn’t brought to be a third string guy. I mean the plan wasn’t for him to fall out the rotation after 11 games- even if we on this board knew this would happen.
Honestly agree with most of what you’re saying. I’m just flabbergasted at how stupid Griff is or what kind of shite situation he put this team in this season from the center position.
Posted on 11/19/24 at 7:47 pm to New City Champ
Agree on Karlo especially with injuries at the moment.
As for Willie I hope you’re right, and perhaps it’s a bit of both, but I think he’s in a classic push pull relationship with Griff. My guess is he has little say in personnel so he makes sure to command who gets minutes. I think it’s why Matt Ryan, who is a try-hard defender, played very little and Griff ultimately had to release him.
As for Willie I hope you’re right, and perhaps it’s a bit of both, but I think he’s in a classic push pull relationship with Griff. My guess is he has little say in personnel so he makes sure to command who gets minutes. I think it’s why Matt Ryan, who is a try-hard defender, played very little and Griff ultimately had to release him.
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