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re: JJ Redick: "This is the most 'freelance' offense I've been in during my entire NBA career"
Posted on 11/13/19 at 10:12 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 11/13/19 at 10:12 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Scott Kushner @ScottDKushner 4h
This is drawing a lot of comments, so I figured it’s a good place to post the full context.
Here are JJ Redick’s comments at practice today. (H/T to @cclark3000 for transcribing)
2
Posted on 11/13/19 at 10:37 pm to TigerinATL
I just wonder how different this team would look if instead of demanding the team execute from the get go Gentry’s ideal system, he instead worked them toward it.
Started a season off reigning everyone in, controlling the offense more. Drilling down more set plays that people could get comfortable with. Balancing the pace a bit more so you weren’t having to make perfect defensive judgement every possession. Then bridging that over time toward his free flow offense.
Gentry seems to try and demand the world out of the gate and time and again the teams he leads fumble unless they are incredibly
disciplined veteran teams like his Steve Nash Suns. And when you look at the teams that over achieve their talent level, it is almost never because the coach just came out the gate and said make it happen, it’s because the coach meticulously identified the strengths and weaknesses and starts the season leaning on strengths, covering weaknesses, and slowly trying to round everything out one step at a time.
Started a season off reigning everyone in, controlling the offense more. Drilling down more set plays that people could get comfortable with. Balancing the pace a bit more so you weren’t having to make perfect defensive judgement every possession. Then bridging that over time toward his free flow offense.
Gentry seems to try and demand the world out of the gate and time and again the teams he leads fumble unless they are incredibly
disciplined veteran teams like his Steve Nash Suns. And when you look at the teams that over achieve their talent level, it is almost never because the coach just came out the gate and said make it happen, it’s because the coach meticulously identified the strengths and weaknesses and starts the season leaning on strengths, covering weaknesses, and slowly trying to round everything out one step at a time.
This post was edited on 11/13/19 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 11/14/19 at 5:33 am to Bronc
quote:
just wonder how different this team would look if instead of demanding the team execute from the get go Gentry’s ideal system, he instead worked them toward it.
Totally fair critique. The teaching aspect is one that deserves some thought (especially with Gentry). It's a younger team and almost exclusively a new team. Building that knowledge and trust is hard; takes time. Fair to wonder how much sense this makes as the NBA becomes a nomad league.
Same time, I don't think throwing it all at them is absolutely malpractice. It's not quite clicking yet, but the mindset when you do go this route is that it will be bumpy, especially at the start. But, the early struggles will pay off down the line. That they will learn together and build chemistry.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 7:41 am to TigerinATL
Gentry out here subverting expectations.....
Posted on 11/14/19 at 8:14 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
per Kushner.
Doesn't that just say it all.
Yall are reading into that way to much. It's not a criticism.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 8:20 am to CP3forMVP
I don't think JJ is saying this to criticize but that is not the point. It is just clarification that Gentry has absolutely no set game plans or plays for that matter. Which is evident if you watch the games. Their offense is to run and hit open 3's or get the layup. When that fails you then see them stall and an iso play forms and nobody moves. We do score a lot of points but with this offense comes turnovers which leads to points off turnovers and that is killing this team. I hope they continue to slow things down like the past two games and work the 1/2 court pick n roll offense.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 8:48 am to J_Hingle
quote:
I don't think JJ is saying this to criticize but that is not the point. It is just clarification that Gentry has absolutely no set game plans or plays for that matter. Which is evident if you watch the games. Their offense is to run and hit open 3's or get the layup. When that fails you then see them stall and an iso play forms and nobody moves. We do score a lot of points but with this offense comes turnovers which leads to points off turnovers and that is killing this team. I hope they continue to slow things down like the past two games and work the 1/2 court pick n roll offense.
When I hear the term freelance offense, that's not what I think of at all. You're still running sets, but you have a whole lot more freedom. It's a motion offense, freelance is just a more fancy name.
The entire principle of a freelance offense in basketball is more freedom, but also more responsibility. It's a free offense with no pre-determined cuts, no predetermined set. It's the offensive players responsibility to read the defense and react, and take what the defense is giving them.
This offense is designed to fit at the end of a break, which is why Gentry wants to play so fast. You can still run sets, but the offense is built to play right into read and react when the set doesn't work.
There's a lot of things to criticize Gentry for, but offense isn't one of them. The offense will get better as the team gets more healthy and they learn to play with each other.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 9:10 am to Fun Bunch
Offense wouldn’t be a problem if we were grabbing defensive rebounds and scoring points in transition just a thought.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 1:18 pm to Chad504boy
quote:He’s saying that this is the first time in his career where every player can do whatever they want whenever they want. There’s no hierarchy of who does what and when. Nobody has a red light to not shoot.
can someone run this through the bull shite translator for me?
Posted on 11/14/19 at 6:55 pm to Fun Bunch
Street basketball has more organization than Gentry's offense
When Gemtry was succesful he has a field general PG who would take over the offense.
Nash and Rondo
When Gemtry was succesful he has a field general PG who would take over the offense.
Nash and Rondo
Posted on 11/15/19 at 6:54 am to Fun Bunch
After last night we are the #7 offense in the NBA. The offense seems to be working.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 7:18 am to Fun Bunch
Be balling AAU style
Posted on 11/15/19 at 7:35 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
The entire principle of a freelance offense in basketball is more freedom, but also more responsibility. It's a free offense with no pre-determined cuts, no predetermined set. It's the offensive players responsibility to read the defense and react, and take what the defense is giving them.
This offense is designed to fit at the end of a break, which is why Gentry wants to play so fast. You can still run sets, but the offense is built to play right into read and react when the set doesn't work.
And to execute that it requires a high level of synergy, basketball IQ, and a pretty cohesive and diverse set of offensive weapons that can apply pressure at all the right pressure points.
All of which are typically not in ideal place when Gentry starts a season.
Which to me explains why it always seems his teams come out the gate underwhelming. Then injuries happen and while that isn’t on him, the way he adjusts by basically not adjusting his core approach and philosophy, is. As the place needed to be for that style of ideal basketball to work is now even further away.
We saw last night when the offense sort of took a few steps back and played at a bit slower pace(though still on par for around 6th to 8th in the league), things clicked a little more. Players looked more comfortable and guys like Favors seemed more in their element(I know health factors in as well). I really am getting convinced that if Gentry would just release his stubbornness with aiming for executional perfection out the gate and instead map out a game plan about how to steadily build toward that over a season, focusing on the core competencies that elude his teams early in seasons(like defensive execution, role familiarity, and ball control) he would immediately be a more effective early season head coach. For instance, maybe instead of aiming to lead the league in pace in October, you aim to be top 5 by January. Focusing instead on executing the underlying things that will make that pace so deadly once you can execute your offense(And most importantly your defense) competently at that level of pace.
This post was edited on 11/15/19 at 7:41 am
Posted on 11/15/19 at 7:50 am to Bronc
quote:
when the offense sort of took a few steps back and played at a bit slower pace, things clicked a little more
According to NBA.com, they played 105 possessions last night. Normally, the Pels play at 107 this year.
quote:
I really am getting convinced that if Gentry would just release his stubbornness with aiming for executional perfection out the gate and instead map out a game plan about how to slowly build toward that over a season, he would immediately be a more effective early season head coach.
Very interesting thoughts in there, but what exactly is the complaint with the offense? They've been top 10ish to start the year. Throwing it all at them seems to be working pretty well, despite injuries to core players and a slow start from Holiday.
quote:
Then injuries happen and while that isn’t on him, the way he adjusts by basically not adjusting his core approach and philosophy
This is one many people toss out there. What coach adjusts their core approach and philosophies because of injuries? That's absurd. What coaches have fundamentally altered their core approach and philosophy because of a roster?
Coaches are there because they believe in certain principles about playing the game (we can always debate how effective those are; certainly Gentry should have some questions). They evolve and adapt tactically/strategically, but they all have core values about the game and they stick to them. Some are better than others; all need the right context (roster and organization) to be successful.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 10:15 am to shel311
quote:Which says it all! Come and play in a playground styled offense for us is Gentry's selling point to players around the league, and did I mention you don't have to play defense. Lmao
No semblance of defense.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 12:19 pm to tubucoco
My biggest issue with the "offense" Gentry runs is it's thrown completely on its face at the end of quarters, when the game nearly always slows down with timeouts and fouls. At that point, you can't run, so you have to have set plays that can create shots in the half-court. Looking back at Gentry's entire run here, our lack of success with set and/drawn plays results in the team not being very clutch. Maybe Zion could help that, but it's a big part of the reason we have lost several games down the stretch.
This post was edited on 11/15/19 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 11/15/19 at 12:21 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Very interesting thoughts in there, but what exactly is the complaint with the offense? They've been top 10ish to start the year. Throwing it all at them seems to be working pretty well, despite injuries to core players and a slow start from Holiday.
Legit question: is the pace and movement creating mismatches against our own defense? That's where you would hope they have a competent analytics group digging into the stats after every game.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 1:17 pm to corndeaux
I’m really not worried about offense for now.
I’ve seen enough to assure me that we have scorers. Pace and movement seem to be key in Gentry’s view, and I agree with him. It It should all gel with time.
I’ve seen enough to assure me that we have scorers. Pace and movement seem to be key in Gentry’s view, and I agree with him. It It should all gel with time.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 5:37 pm to Jester
quote:
our lack of success with set and/drawn plays results in the team not being very clutch
They haven't had the shot creators to be consistently great there. Clutch offense isn't wizard like sets drawn up by a coach; it's giving the ball to your best player and getting them in a comfortable action. Passing and motion slow to a crawl because teams are much more worried about a TOV. Even Warriors would stop the motion to run Curry/KD PnR or KD ISOs when they needed a bucket in crunch time.
quote:
is the pace and movement creating mismatches against our own defense?
Great question and tough to really answer. High pace and bad defense are not always connected- Milwaukee was the 5th fastest team last year and the best defense. Philly 4th in pace and 3rd in defense the year before, et al. In 17/18, the Pels were 1st in Pace and 15th in defense. Just getting to league average would be huge for the Pels.
Movement creating mismatches coming back is tougher to figure out. Theoretically, the Pels finally have enough length and positional versatility where that shouldn't be as big of an issue off a defensive rebound. Teams practice scrambling and recovering. But they are so lost and confused on that end right now.
I think it's more youth, unfamiliar teammates, and a new scheme that are busting them up than playing too fast. Maybe some of the unfamiliarity on offense has players thinking too much instead of just playing. Eventually, they should get to trusting each other and the scheme more.
I just think we need to chill a bit. Let's see how they look after getting Zion back and playing about 15-20 games with him in there before jumping to any serious conclusions. That's what really matters and what this is all about.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 6:47 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Very interesting thoughts in there, but what exactly is the complaint with the offense? They've been top 10ish to start the year. Throwing it all at them seems to be working pretty well, despite injuries to core players and a slow start from Holiday.
We are 3-8 and have a horrendous net rating.
This is a fluid game, offense, and defense, can not be separated.
What Gentry demands out the gate is about as much as any coach asks of any team: lead leaguing pace, split decision-making freelance offensive basketball that correctly prioritizes the needs, strengths, and weaknesses of players few have played meaningful minutes with, doing so with few turnovers, then after chasing that league-leading physical play on offense, requiring maximal mental energy to go with it, you need to get back on defense and put just as much effort on that end. Either switching everything or now with Bzdeik, executing a more complex defensive system that requires a synergistic understanding of who to switch with, stick with, and how to play with certain, often changing lineups.
Oh, and coach really likes to answer struggles by going smaller and smaller, quickly shuffling through the bench, meaning you will be asking even more of people physically less capable of achieving that level of well rounded maximum output. Also, the coach is kind of laid back and doesn't really emphasize a lot of heavy structure.
I'm just saying, it doesn't exactly shock me that we come out the gate slowly season after season and the same issues seem to pop up.
This post was edited on 11/15/19 at 6:50 pm
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