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Started By
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re: If you had to get rid of 1 player: Gordon, Holiday, or Evans, who would it be?
Posted on 3/23/15 at 9:52 am to Spitting Venom
Posted on 3/23/15 at 9:52 am to Spitting Venom
quote:
Why would Chicago dump what you just described for Gordon and a 2016 late first rounder?
Yep. Butler is a good 2 way wing i.e. one of the most valuable player types in the league. If they don't have any faith in Rose (and, sadly, they shouldn't at this point), there is no reason to move on from Butler.
0
Posted on 3/23/15 at 10:27 am to VOR
With the way Mirotic is playing, I would be surprised as hell if the Bulls wanted Ryno.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:10 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Not hindsight when you've been saying it all along baw
Oh, so you knew Holiday was going to be injured when the trade happened...
quote:
U mad bc you said noel and payton were busts just a mere few months ago
No, I didn't. You have a pretty creative memory.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:33 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
2 future All Stars
You were about the only one hyping up AD/Noel/Payton. That "core" would have them at about 20-25 wins in the west right now.
The team was very likely not to draft nerlens(who was picked FOR philly) and picked a guy like MCW/Burke instead(shudders)
Next year would've been someone else. Nerlens/Payton/AD was never going to happen so drop it.
Oh and those guy's would be making a combined 7 mil so they'd only have 3 mil,not 10.
This post was edited on 3/23/15 at 11:38 am
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:14 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Sorry, I believe "career backups" was the term you used
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:15 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Sorry, I believe "career backups" was the term you used
Did I? I'd be interested to see any post where I said they're both career backups.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:33 pm to GynoSandberg
Nice stats for players on bad team. Too bad their turnovers, fg%, and ft% suck. Hard stats get inflated on bad teams. Advanced speaks totally differently.
Payton: 96ortg, 107drtg
Noel: 94ortg, 99drtg
Noel also plays more minutes as a pf than center last time I checked as well.
Payton: 96ortg, 107drtg
Noel: 94ortg, 99drtg
Noel also plays more minutes as a pf than center last time I checked as well.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:03 pm to htran90
You are talking about rookies. Wiggins in the only one better. Neither have ever ever been touted for their offensive prowess and they arent going to be offensive stalwarts their 1st season in the league. Cmon
Nerlens is 6th in the NBA DRating. 5th in Defensive wins shares. 2nd in Def +/-. Top 10 in the NBA in STL% and BLK %. 20 year old rookie here.
He's also limiting players at the rim better than a slew of "defensive stars" such as Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, and Tyson Chandler.
Payton just started to come on, but his name pops up across Top 10 lists for PGs in a few advanced stats. Assist %, rebounding, steals etc. He's also in the top 10 for PGs in assists, steals, and rebounds.
70 something games into a career. They don't even have to "fit" (even though they would've). It's more about acquiring quality NBA players at good value. Use Asik and Holiday's money elsewhere to get better, if you will
quote:
Advanced speaks totally differently.
Nerlens is 6th in the NBA DRating. 5th in Defensive wins shares. 2nd in Def +/-. Top 10 in the NBA in STL% and BLK %. 20 year old rookie here.
He's also limiting players at the rim better than a slew of "defensive stars" such as Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, and Tyson Chandler.
Payton just started to come on, but his name pops up across Top 10 lists for PGs in a few advanced stats. Assist %, rebounding, steals etc. He's also in the top 10 for PGs in assists, steals, and rebounds.
70 something games into a career. They don't even have to "fit" (even though they would've). It's more about acquiring quality NBA players at good value. Use Asik and Holiday's money elsewhere to get better, if you will
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:13 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Nerlens is 6th in the NBA DRating. 5th in Defensive wins shares. 2nd in Def +/-. Top 10 in the NBA in STL% and BLK %. 20 year old rookie here.
IMO the problem with Nerlens was always positional duplication at PF. Would he get the minutes he needed to develop and if not would you be looking at Derrick Williams 2.0. If Noel was that much further ahead of the rest of the draft, and of propsects rated in that range he was, trading was always the move to make.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:32 pm to TigerinATL
This is scenario is really just tongue in cheek. Obviously I find it interesting to play what if as I am usually the one to bring this up
BUT
Noel has logged 42% of his team's minutes at center compared to 15% at PF. Im not sure where the strict PF notion comes from.
Davis has already logged 28% of the minutes at center for us compared to 36% at PF.
Hypothetically the minutes would be there. You wouldnt have to ask anything of Noel offensively (think a coordinated Asik on offense at least) and defensively he's already at the top of the league statistically as a 20 year old rookie, logging the majority of minutes at the center position.
BUT
Noel has logged 42% of his team's minutes at center compared to 15% at PF. Im not sure where the strict PF notion comes from.
Davis has already logged 28% of the minutes at center for us compared to 36% at PF.
Hypothetically the minutes would be there. You wouldnt have to ask anything of Noel offensively (think a coordinated Asik on offense at least) and defensively he's already at the top of the league statistically as a 20 year old rookie, logging the majority of minutes at the center position.
This post was edited on 3/23/15 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:40 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Nerlens was always positional duplication at PF
This distinction is baffling to me. It's like is a guy a PG or SG. It doesn't matter. He is an elite rim protector.
According to Nylon Calculus, his rim protection contest % in line with Asik, Drummond, Duncan, Koufos, Gortat, Cousins, Mason Plumlee, Jefferson, Marc Gasol. His Rim FG% allowed is top 10.
He gets beat in one on one post ups because of size. So what? Philly has a top 10 defense with Noel as the anchor
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:44 pm to corndeaux
I think the size thing was the main issue, Davis and Noel would have been a super skinny front line. Although, Davis has put on some solid mass, and I'm assuming Noel could, too.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:48 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Im not sure where the strict PF notion comes from.
He's skinnier than AD with a smaller frame than AD. He's actually manned up and played well, but can you say you honestly envisioned him taking on an Asik starting center role by year 2 back then, especially knowing that year 1 would likely be lost to injury?
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:53 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
I think the size thing was the main issue, Davis and Noel would have been a super skinny front line. Although, Davis has put on some solid mass, and I'm assuming Noel could, too.
And the reason why many of us hate Minnesota. Andre Drummond is one thick arse mofo in comparison.
I don't hate Nerlens, I've gone on the record saying I wouldn't have minded him or Jrue as they both fill needs on this team. I just don't like the fact that he has no offensive skillset whatsoever, arguably as bad as Asik. His defensive prowness is great, but offensively he's pretty putrid.
As for Payton, his march stats are good (2 triple doubles and 2 close triple doubles), but I don't trust him as much as I don't trust Tyreke to stay consistent. That has been his issue.
Albeit, they're both rookies and they can grow extremely well. I just don't think we would have picked Nerlens and we wouldn't have had Payton if we went MCW/Burke the year prior.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:54 pm to corndeaux
I highly doubt monty would've put him in situation to succeed defensively. Look at Jrue/Asik.
Nerlens also has the luxury of playing in the east. He doesn't have to deal with M Gasol/Aldridge/Howard/Cousins etc 3-4 times a year.
Payton will be a solid PG but his FT% is baffling and he still can't shoot for shite from outside.
Nerlens also has the luxury of playing in the east. He doesn't have to deal with M Gasol/Aldridge/Howard/Cousins etc 3-4 times a year.
Payton will be a solid PG but his FT% is baffling and he still can't shoot for shite from outside.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 2:00 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
He's skinnier than AD with a smaller frame than AD.
IDK, he's noticeably bigger than he was a UK. He's still smaller than Davis, but I think his play at center can attest to some of the mass he has gained. The proof is really in the numbers.
quote:
but can you say you honestly envisioned him taking on an Asik starting center role by year 2 back then, especially knowing that year 1 would likely be lost to injury?
I mean, Asik plays 26 mpg. I could've envisioned Noel getting that. I also would have told you that there would be growing pains along the way, which we saw in the 1st half of the season. Post ASB has been a totally different story. I expected a steady growth out of Noel, but id be lying if I expected it this soon.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 2:03 pm to GynoSandberg
You also have to remember the roster he's playing with and their situation.
Asik's minutes are more of a monty problem than an asik problem.
Asik's minutes are more of a monty problem than an asik problem.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 2:09 pm to GynoSandberg
post-ASB he's only played against some okay centers, but nothing extremely great from the west.
Hibbert - got outplayed by Noel 2x
Vucevic - destroyed Noel
Whiteside - even matchup
Gortat - pretty well
Drummond - kind of had his way with Noel
I'd hate having him matched up against some of the centers in the west, I really would.
Hibbert - got outplayed by Noel 2x
Vucevic - destroyed Noel
Whiteside - even matchup
Gortat - pretty well
Drummond - kind of had his way with Noel
I'd hate having him matched up against some of the centers in the west, I really would.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 2:32 pm to htran90
a guy like deandre Jordan gets DESTROYED on the reg by opposing bigs, yet is regarded as a top defensive center. You could say it just comes with the territory. The good ones are good for a reason
Posted on 3/23/15 at 3:35 pm to GynoSandberg
I think it ultimately comes with a center that is at least consistent for >50% of the season. Noel may or may not, I think he will be, but his body won't be putting on Drummond's size to dominate.
Do I think the trade is a fail? Not one bit since we have a tendency to not develop players and keep them.
I'm happy with Holiday as he's one of the better defensive PGs that actually knows his position and what to do to run an offense.
I'd be happy with Nerlens as a center for us, although it'd be kind of skinny.
I'd be unhappy with Payton though. I have a thing against players that can't shoot and are horrible ft shooters though.
Do I think the trade is a fail? Not one bit since we have a tendency to not develop players and keep them.
I'm happy with Holiday as he's one of the better defensive PGs that actually knows his position and what to do to run an offense.
I'd be happy with Nerlens as a center for us, although it'd be kind of skinny.
I'd be unhappy with Payton though. I have a thing against players that can't shoot and are horrible ft shooters though.
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