- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Hypo: Cavs offer Kyrie for Boogie. Do you make that trade?
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:19 pm to GynoSandberg
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:19 pm to GynoSandberg
Kyrie is an elite scorer, but offers nothing else.
You're smart, how does Cleveland do when Lebron is out? I guarantee you if you take Bron off that team and let Kyrie be the guy the struggle to even make the playoffs. "Cut from the same cloth as Lillard" lolz yet when it was his team they were the worst in the league.
Can't run an offense
Can't defend.
So fricking overrated
You're smart, how does Cleveland do when Lebron is out? I guarantee you if you take Bron off that team and let Kyrie be the guy the struggle to even make the playoffs. "Cut from the same cloth as Lillard" lolz yet when it was his team they were the worst in the league.
Can't run an offense
Can't defend.
So fricking overrated
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 4:22 pm
2
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:26 pm to htran90
Tranny, if this popped up coming off of Cleveland's championship in 2016, people would be creaming themselves over Kyrie. Now he's getting all the negative labels, it's all about the recency bias per the usual
Cleveland's offensive rating has been +10, +5, and +10 the last three seasons while Kyrie was on the court vs off the court. They are running elite numbers w Kyrie in there
Mind you they have been 3rd in O rating the last three years.
The Cavs are built this way by design though. Everything is going to run through Kyrie and lebron and everyone else is playing a role. They score nearly half their team's points
And Lebron doesn't win a title 2 years ago without Kyrie, who was absolutely lights out in the playoffs and finals.
People are off base in regards to Kyrie's offensive game
Cleveland's offensive rating has been +10, +5, and +10 the last three seasons while Kyrie was on the court vs off the court. They are running elite numbers w Kyrie in there
Mind you they have been 3rd in O rating the last three years.
quote:
He's great at it. He's bad at running a team oriented offense. For someone with such a high usage rate, he plays iso most of the time inefficiently and doesn't get his teammates involved at all.
The Cavs are built this way by design though. Everything is going to run through Kyrie and lebron and everyone else is playing a role. They score nearly half their team's points
quote:
Except Irving had never been in the playoffs without Lebron
And Lebron doesn't win a title 2 years ago without Kyrie, who was absolutely lights out in the playoffs and finals.
People are off base in regards to Kyrie's offensive game
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:34 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
You're smart, how does Cleveland do when Lebron is out? I guarantee you if you take Bron off that team and let Kyrie be the guy the struggle to even make the playoffs. "Cut from the same cloth as Lillard" lolz yet when it was his team they were the worst in the league.
Kyrie was 19, 20, and 21 in CLE before Lebron came in
Lillard was a 4 year college guy and cams into the league at 22. Harden didn't get to HOU until he was 23. Players evolve and get better
quote:
Can't run an offense Can't defend. So fricking overrated
He can't play defense well.
But can run an offense and overrated? I can't even.
And fricking knighting for Demarcus cousins and bringing up all these "defecienices" of Irving is rich
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:34 pm to GynoSandberg
That looks good and all, but all of his efficiency stats have skyrocketed from playing with one of the greatest players of all time.
If you have a quality player that can run the offense, like Lebron, then yes he is absolutely a guy you want. And he becomes more valuable. If I am ranking point guards I'm not sure if I'd even put him 5th.
If you have a quality player that can run the offense, like Lebron, then yes he is absolutely a guy you want. And he becomes more valuable. If I am ranking point guards I'm not sure if I'd even put him 5th.
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:36 pm to CocoLoco
The goal of attaining a player like Kyrie with the pieces we have now is to compete for a championship against the Warriors and Cavs...
With that, I do not trade Boogie nor AD, they are a must have to any chance of the goal prior mentioned.
So, my trade involves Jrue, Asik or Anjinca, a first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder. Do I give up another 1st or Diallo? Only if the deal mandates the Cavs taking Asik AND Solo off the books and includes Korver and Shumpert and/or C. Frye, at least.
Would still need to find a SF and inquire as to whether Kyrie would embrace being off the ball with Rondo, but that may be for a year only or less.
Nevertheless, attaining Kyrie would put the Pels in the top 4-5 in the league with some cap room to shore up the bench and starting SF spot.
With that, I do not trade Boogie nor AD, they are a must have to any chance of the goal prior mentioned.
So, my trade involves Jrue, Asik or Anjinca, a first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder. Do I give up another 1st or Diallo? Only if the deal mandates the Cavs taking Asik AND Solo off the books and includes Korver and Shumpert and/or C. Frye, at least.
Would still need to find a SF and inquire as to whether Kyrie would embrace being off the ball with Rondo, but that may be for a year only or less.
Nevertheless, attaining Kyrie would put the Pels in the top 4-5 in the league with some cap room to shore up the bench and starting SF spot.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:38 pm to GynoSandberg
When I say he's overrated, I am talking to people that seem to think he is an elite player. He's not top 10. He is a very good player, but he's more so in that 15-25 range.
Curry, Westbrook, Cp3 and Wall are all absolutely better than he is. That is just point guards.
and yes I do think Cousins is better than he is. Basically eery NBA player rankings list that I've seen has Cousins ahead of him as well. But in todays NBA big men can't impact the game as much as players constantly with the ball in their hands. Hopefully Cousins changes his ways a bit and can helps us.
Curry, Westbrook, Cp3 and Wall are all absolutely better than he is. That is just point guards.
and yes I do think Cousins is better than he is. Basically eery NBA player rankings list that I've seen has Cousins ahead of him as well. But in todays NBA big men can't impact the game as much as players constantly with the ball in their hands. Hopefully Cousins changes his ways a bit and can helps us.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:42 pm to GynoSandberg
Kyrie is clearly the best 1 on 1 point guard in the league, but what I find troubling is that there are games where he scored 30+ but had 0 assists. Maybe that changes with a new team, maybe it doesn't.
Also, with our elite talent being at PF and C we need someone who feeds the ball well to them (which we have in Rondo and Holiday). We don't need someone to run out the shot clock and take a step back three and have your two other elite players stand watching.
Also, with our elite talent being at PF and C we need someone who feeds the ball well to them (which we have in Rondo and Holiday). We don't need someone to run out the shot clock and take a step back three and have your two other elite players stand watching.
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:48 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Tranny, if this popped up coming off of Cleveland's championship in 2016, people would be creaming themselves over Kyrie. Now he's getting all the negative labels, it's all about the recency bias per the usual
he's an elite scorer, but it ALWAYS been the same case. Winning or not, he's still:
Poor defender
Does not get teammates involved
He had a good series vs injured Curry, but it does not mean he's a good defender. Curry abused the shite out of him this year.
quote:
The Cavs are built this way by design though. Everything is going to run through Kyrie and lebron and everyone else is playing a role. They score nearly half their team's points
And the way the cavs were built before LeBron came along? He is simply not a POINT guard who gets his teammates involved.
quote:
And Lebron doesn't win a title 2 years ago without Kyrie, who was absolutely lights out in the playoffs and finals.
Great, what does that have to do with everything else? Without Ray Allen, LeBron doesn't win one either.
One moment or series does not erase a larger chunk of his career.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:50 pm to Pelicans8
Kyrie has games where he looks like an all time great player. He is one of the few guys capable of this. And his best is as good as anyones best. What I don't like about him is that when his shot isn't going he offers nothing else.
Gynos criticism of Boogie is fair, and I agree with a lot of it. But Irving has plenty of faults to him as well, it has just been covered up by the second greatest player of all time. He's a winner because he has had Lebron. I like the dog in him. He's not afraid of the big moment. But he doesn't even get close to those moments if he's "the guy" on a team.
Gynos criticism of Boogie is fair, and I agree with a lot of it. But Irving has plenty of faults to him as well, it has just been covered up by the second greatest player of all time. He's a winner because he has had Lebron. I like the dog in him. He's not afraid of the big moment. But he doesn't even get close to those moments if he's "the guy" on a team.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 7/22/17 at 4:56 pm to Pelicans8
What does getting teammates involved matter when you're running one of the most high powered offenses out there? You guys are acting like he never passes the ball. He is a combo guard who is looking to score first and foremost
That's like people here getting enamored with Rondo's assist numbers when he's notorious for going out of his way to get numbers
Hey forget your elite offensive numbers that's made our team successful we want just want you to pass to your teammates. JR Smith and iman shumpert needs more looks
That's like people here getting enamored with Rondo's assist numbers when he's notorious for going out of his way to get numbers
Hey forget your elite offensive numbers that's made our team successful we want just want you to pass to your teammates. JR Smith and iman shumpert needs more looks
Posted on 7/22/17 at 5:55 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
What does getting teammates involved matter when you're running one of the most high powered offenses out there? You guys are acting like he never passes the ball. He is a combo guard who is looking to score first and foremost
the big problem is, if he's your primary ball handler, if your shot doesn't fall, he needs to get others involved.
The biggest issue with him is when he plays his ISO ball, it doesn't fall, he continues to do so. We ALL saw it during the finals and its what bit them in the arse.
quote:
That's like people here getting enamored with Rondo's assist numbers when he's notorious for going out of his way to get numbers
Yeah, Rondo is the one with a clear easy layup and rather pass it for the assist than score. He rather make an outlet pass for an open 3 than take a contested layup.
Completely opposite of Kyrie who would take the shot 9/10 times.
But this is completely different situations, we have AD and Cousins..you WANT that kind of player who's looking to get others involved first.
quote:
Hey forget your elite offensive numbers that's made our team successful we want just want you to pass to your teammates. JR Smith and iman shumpert needs more looks
The point is, if he's 1/7 and 1 assist to start the game, you want him to start getting teammates involved, not continue to chuck up shots. The issue with him is, he's going to continue chucking up the shots.
He's a combo guard like you said, which works PERFECTLY if he's surrounded by B-level talent and players of lesser caliber. The issue becomes when he has quality talent on the court, he still plays ISO ball which isn't conductive to "team basketball".
That's why a lot of people question how it fits with the ball movement spurs. Kawhi is the only player on their team who ISOs often, but their offense doesn't run through Kawhi ALL the time as there are other ball handlers (parker, mills, ginobili, etc) who generate offense. Getting Irving, its going to be in his hands a lot. Can you trust him to make the smart on-court decision when his shot doesn't fall?
We have AD who is a more efficient score/player than Kyrie. You would rather a team built around ball movement than ISO ball.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 7/22/17 at 7:33 pm to Pelicans8
Best 1 on 1? John Wall would KILL him, curry would kill him, dame would kill him. Get out of here with that trash
Posted on 7/22/17 at 8:52 pm to chesty
I'll admit that saying Kyrie was clearly the best 1 on 1 point guard is a bit of a stretch, but to say that Wall, Curry, and Dame would "kill" Irving at 1 on 1 undoubtedly more of an exaggeration.
Also, I'm not saying that Kyrie isn't a great player when I said his assist numbers weren't good. I'm just saying he probably isn't the best fit for our offense and the team we've already constructed. The Cavs played a substantial amount of hero ball last season, I admit that he's great at hero ball, however, I just don't think that type of play fits into what Gentry wants to accomplish.
Also, I'm not saying that Kyrie isn't a great player when I said his assist numbers weren't good. I'm just saying he probably isn't the best fit for our offense and the team we've already constructed. The Cavs played a substantial amount of hero ball last season, I admit that he's great at hero ball, however, I just don't think that type of play fits into what Gentry wants to accomplish.
Posted on 7/22/17 at 10:28 pm to Pelicans8
quote:
I'll admit that saying Kyrie was clearly the best 1 on 1 point guard is a bit of a stretch, but to say that Wall, Curry, and Dame would "kill" Irving at 1 on 1 undoubtedly more of an exaggeration.
Its not a stretch, dude has amazing handles and is a very good shooter just like them.
quote:
Also, I'm not saying that Kyrie isn't a great player when I said his assist numbers weren't good. I'm just saying he probably isn't the best fit for our offense and the team we've already constructed. The Cavs played a substantial amount of hero ball last season, I admit that he's great at hero ball, however, I just don't think that type of play fits into what Gentry wants to accomplish.
Exactly, his hero ball is equal to Tyreke. Yes it generates offense when you need it. He's also vastly better than Tyreke. Issue is, when it doesn't fall, does he continue to be hardheaded and not get others involved or does he actually make the pass like Harden has done in recent years?
Posted on 7/22/17 at 11:42 pm to htran90
Compare contracts and if I had to have one give me Tyreke any day.
Irving is better, but not 6 times better.
Irving is better, but not 6 times better.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:56 am to TheJruth
I'd rather give up holidays contract and hope we could pick up Thompson in the trade.
Irving with Rhonda backing him would set us at the point. The difference in salary is between Kyrie and Jrue should allow us to pick up a wing, and Thompson would do well next to A.D., in my opinion
That said, I'd rather roll with what we have now and see how it looks this season
Irving with Rhonda backing him would set us at the point. The difference in salary is between Kyrie and Jrue should allow us to pick up a wing, and Thompson would do well next to A.D., in my opinion
That said, I'd rather roll with what we have now and see how it looks this season
Posted on 7/23/17 at 2:58 am to Machine
Jrue
Irving
Hill
AD
Thompson
Or
Rondo
Jrue
Hill
AD
Cousins
No way I'm making that trade without Thompson and them taking Asik off our hands.
Irving
Hill
AD
Thompson
Or
Rondo
Jrue
Hill
AD
Cousins
No way I'm making that trade without Thompson and them taking Asik off our hands.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 5:02 am to Rakim
How in the world Cavs would trade Irving & Thompson for expiring DMC?
Not going into details about our (lack) of willingness of trading DMC.
Hope Irving and Melo will be traded soon to end such ideas...
Not going into details about our (lack) of willingness of trading DMC.
Hope Irving and Melo will be traded soon to end such ideas...
Posted on 7/23/17 at 8:33 am to pawel
LOL at people crapping on Kyrie in this thread.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 9:08 am to TheJruth
I feel like this would alienate AD, so no.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News