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Guard Driven League and why Herb/Dyson is best way forward.

Posted on 11/25/23 at 9:49 am
Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
43021 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 9:49 am
The NBA use to be the league of the big man and sometime back in the early 2010's it switched to the league of the 3pt shooting guards. Since then, we really have extended the range of shots made well beyond the 3pt arc which requires a new type of modern NBA defense.

This brings me to the Pelicans, where they may have stumbled upon the knife to kill the proverbial golden geese.

Here is a great point from PPT last night:

LINK

quote:

Dyson Daniels doesn’t need any help on James Harden ????

James Harden last night:
37 MIN
2-8 FG
1-6 3 PT
3 TO’s
8 PTS


In todays guard driven league you need to either match up offensively or shut down defensively. However, somehow the Pelicans have stumbled into a way to do both. Whether by design or by fortunate luck the Pelicans have found a pair of NFL corners to defend the wings and have finally got both of their stars to play together in the PnR to garner a certified baller status OTRG.

Over the course of the last 5 games the Pelicans are now 8th in OTRG (119.6) and 6th in DEFRTG (108.4) going 4-1 in those games with the one loss being one point to the Timberwolves (a game we had in hand and let get away).

I think the biggest challenge is how do we integrate key core pieces that are going to be coming online here more than likely after the road trip. Here are my thoughts:

Inc: CJ and Trey
Down the Road: Matt Ryan

This team needs another players meeting to get the point across that starters are in name only (not that I dont think they know this but just to really enforce that idea).

I think you absolutely have to trot out whats working right now. At least until Trey has his game legs back.

JV
Zion
BI
Herb
Dyson

For some reason now we have so much talent from 6-11 that hard discussions will be needed as their are only so many minutes to give. It's almost as if we will be sellers at the trade deadline or look to move a few of these guys for a final big man for a playoff run.

I do think once CJ is completely healed you send him back into the starting lineup. However watching post game someone made a great point that the rotations seem to be trying to get to where one group rotation is Zion's style, the next BI's style. So my rotations will relect the same.

Assuming all of our players are healthy:

Starting 5 min of game:

JV
Zion
BI
Herb
CJ

At 6 min mark of 1st Quarter (or indictive of how other team is defending):

BI's Team Unit:

JV
Trey
BI
Herb
Dyson

This grouping allows BI to do his midrange thing with strong defensive backup and rebounding. You still also maintain the 3pt shooting threat with Trey.

Zion's Team Unit:

Zion
Trey
Hawk
CJ
Jose

Zion gets shooting galore, CJ small windows of ball handling. The idea here is we dont miss often and therefore dont need a bonafide rebounder. This still would require Zion, Trey, and Hawk to be the primary rebounders.

Closing Game:

Zion
Trey
BI
Herb
Dyson/CJ

Notice Trey didnt start the game, but he damn sure is there to end it. I think over the course of the next 4 years this is the real core of the Pelicans moving forward (assuming we pay BI a contract).


Tradable Assets:

Larry
Naji
Kira

Im reluctat to put JV in the tradeable asset category as he is by far our best big man but we need another BAD.
Posted by LSUgrad88
Member since Jun 2009
8384 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:05 am to
This obsession with who starts is really kind of silly. The important part is Dyson gets his 20-30 minutes a game. The starting five will play the first six minutes of the game (barring foul trouble) and the first six or so minutes of the second half. Who closes games is much more important.
Posted by Dinky Mulberry
Member since Aug 2021
2290 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:37 am to
quote:

This obsession with who starts is really kind of silly. The important part is Dyson gets his 20-30 minutes a game. The starting five will play the first six minutes of the game (barring foul trouble) and the first six or so minutes of the second half. Who closes games is much more important.


Totally agree...and sometimes, quite a bit of "stuff" goes into deciding who starts & who doesn't, from a psychological point of view. I think CJ, at this point in his career, has "earned", both "on" and "off" the court, the starting role but as you infer, it's not really THAT big of a deal. I'd start CJ. Dyson's role will definitely increase as the season goes on...
Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
25971 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:45 am to
quote:

it's not really THAT big of a deal.


I'm not saying CJ cares, but starting is a big deal to a lot of NBA players.
Posted by Dinky Mulberry
Member since Aug 2021
2290 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:59 am to
quote:

I'm not saying CJ cares, but starting is a big deal to a lot of NBA players.


Definitely...which is why the Coach knowing the "psychology" involved with each player is important.
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
31068 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:17 am to
quote:

This obsession with who starts is really kind of silly. The important part is Dyson gets his 20-30 minutes a game. The starting five will play the first six minutes of the game (barring foul trouble) and the first six or so minutes of the second half. Who closes games is much more important.


While I agree to a certain extent, I don’t need Dyson and Herb locking up a second string guy while Harden blows past CJ at will. It’s more dictated on match ups to me. Willie is typically playing battle while the other coaches are playing high stakes poker.
Posted by AboveTheRim
Member since Sep 2020
602 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:29 am to
The finishing 5 will be interesting , assuming healthy players - a massive assumption.

We miss cj’s ball handling in the last 3 minutes . Zion and BI have both struggled with Turnovers in crunch time and possessions tend to be hectic .

Are you pulling one of Dyson and or Herb off for Trey ? Willing to go really small with Zion at 5?
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5573 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:35 am to
quote:

the Pelicans have found a pair of NFL corners to defend the wings and have finally got both of their stars to play together in the PnR to garner a certified baller status OTRG.


The great thing about having Dyson, Herb, Zion, Ingram on the floor, you can slot in any of our other guys with that group and it makes sense. Need more size and rebounding - Jonas. Shooting - murphy/Hawkins. Ball handling - CJ.

quote:

Im reluctat to put JV in the tradeable asset category as he is by far our best big man but we need another BAD.


We need Jonas on this team. There just isn’t a replacement for his size. There may be a playoff matchup where he hurts us, but Jonas giving 25-30 minutes a game is necessary to survive the regular season slog.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112635 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:43 am to
quote:

We need Jonas on this team.
Yep

Last night was so frustrating when the offense started stalling over and over with around 4 minutes to go, and the Clippers went small and Val had a huge mismatch and we never looked his way.

Feels like something all NBA teams do but there's no rule that says you have to have you best 2 players running every single set the final 4 minutes. Take what the defense gives you, feed Val and auto double teams would have opened shite up.
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
31068 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Last night was so frustrating when the offense started stalling over and over with around 4 minutes to go, and the Clippers went small and Val had a huge mismatch and we never looked his way.


Not sure what was going on but at this point he was coming out to the top of the key to set picks. I don’t know why he wasn’t setting up in the low post and just feasting. Who was dictating that shite?
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20733 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 4:52 pm to
B-ball Index does a Pickpocket Rating that measures on-ball steals generated:

quote:

The top 10 in Pickpocket Rating.

1. Paul George
2. SGA
3. Kyle Lowry
4. Chris Paul
5. Haywood Highsmith
6. Marcus Sasser
7. Kawhi Leonard
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Jalen Suggs
10. Herbert Jones



Remember that Herb gets more steals from intercepting passes, but both Herb and Dyson are top-ten in on-ball steals.

LINK
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
46744 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 5:10 pm to
if you typed all that on your phone I’m impressed. If I tried to do that I’d need to go get a cortisone shot afterwards
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20733 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 6:13 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/25/23 at 6:13 pm
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
18452 posts
Posted on 11/25/23 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

We need Jonas on this team. There just isn’t a replacement for his size. There may be a playoff matchup where he hurts us, but Jonas giving 25-30 minutes a game is necessary to survive the regular season slog.


The West goes through Denver until someone proves otherwise. I think Trey can provide enough size next to Zion against most teams, but not against Jokic. Jonas is our only hope against that monster.
This post was edited on 11/25/23 at 8:06 pm
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