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re: Gimme Dyson and Herb averaging 36% between them from 3-pt range...and
Posted on 10/11/23 at 10:28 pm to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 10/11/23 at 10:28 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
What worries me about Dyson is something you can’t control or even technically teach. Thats his aggression and confidence offensively.
Dyson has been frustrating, for sure. But another "big" guy, working WITH Herb, that can defend all over the court would be a huge benefit for the Pels. I just can't see the Pels giving up on this guy...until they are totally convinced he just can't get the job done, offensively. He'll get EVERY opportunity (maybe too many for some people) to develope his offensive game. I'm optimistic.
1
Posted on 10/11/23 at 10:50 pm to Dinky Mulberry
I hear ya. What’s frustrating is when you see guys like Max Christie on the Lakers just blossoming right before your eyes. Like they say the draft really is a crapshoot.
Posted on 10/11/23 at 11:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
He doesn’t need much, just a good enough 3 and the floater he’s already showed flashes of. Again, he’s 20, don’t act like he’s a finished product or what he needs to add is crazy.
Really feel like you just yadda yadda'd the shite out of how barren his offensive game actually is. I've never seen an NBA player his size be as timid as he is around the rim.
He has a loooooong way to go offensively.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 6:23 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I mean Kira was very young too. Did he develop into what we thought?
Dyson showed more NBA ability in his rookie year than Kira has in 3.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 6:26 am to Broski
And I feel like everyone who is down on him thinks he needs the offensive game to average 15+ppg while being the PG of the bench unit. Fast forward 2 years and Zion, BI and Trey should carry most of the scoring on offense. If Dyson is giving you 10-12 points, 7-9 rebounds, and 4-5 assists in 25-30 minutes, while guarding 1-4, maybe 1-5, that’s all you need.
Will teams ignore him on defense? Yes. But I have never believed the myth most of this board has that there is a magical set of attainable 2 way players out there that will scare teams enough to stretch the floor for Zion. Teams are always going to choose to load up on Zion over defending role players. So your role players have to do 2 things on offense, hit enough open jumpers and cut into the space that Zion creates to hit open layups.
I’m not yadda yaddaing, Dyson, I’m assuming he’s playing with Zion and you aren’t asking much of him on offense. I’m also thinking ahead a few years, so that’s what I’m expecting out of a developed Dyson, not a 20 year old Dyson.
Will teams ignore him on defense? Yes. But I have never believed the myth most of this board has that there is a magical set of attainable 2 way players out there that will scare teams enough to stretch the floor for Zion. Teams are always going to choose to load up on Zion over defending role players. So your role players have to do 2 things on offense, hit enough open jumpers and cut into the space that Zion creates to hit open layups.
I’m not yadda yaddaing, Dyson, I’m assuming he’s playing with Zion and you aren’t asking much of him on offense. I’m also thinking ahead a few years, so that’s what I’m expecting out of a developed Dyson, not a 20 year old Dyson.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 6:58 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 6:36 am to Broski
quote:
I've never seen an NBA player his size be as timid as he is around the rim.
Ben Simmons comes to mind.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 7:37 am to Pels_Yaz
How many triple doubles did Christie flirt with?
Dyson:
12pts/15reb/8ast
17pts/11reb/8ast
14pts/8reb/9ast
And yes he only played 20-30 games averaging 30min. People greatly underestimate his potential. These stats don’t even account for his defensive abilities.
If he improves a little bit then he could borderline averaging a double double. If his defensive somehow continues to improve then he will borderline a double double with elite defense….
Edit:
Max Christie Avg:
PTS- 3.1
REB- 1.8
AST- 0.5
FG%- 41.5
Dyson Avg:
PTS- 3.8
REB- 3.2
AST- 2.3
FG%- 41.8
Kira Lewis rookie year:
PTS- 6.4
REB- 1.3
AST- 2.3
FG%- 44.5
Dyson:
12pts/15reb/8ast
17pts/11reb/8ast
14pts/8reb/9ast
And yes he only played 20-30 games averaging 30min. People greatly underestimate his potential. These stats don’t even account for his defensive abilities.
If he improves a little bit then he could borderline averaging a double double. If his defensive somehow continues to improve then he will borderline a double double with elite defense….
Edit:
Max Christie Avg:
PTS- 3.1
REB- 1.8
AST- 0.5
FG%- 41.5
Dyson Avg:
PTS- 3.8
REB- 3.2
AST- 2.3
FG%- 41.8
Kira Lewis rookie year:
PTS- 6.4
REB- 1.3
AST- 2.3
FG%- 44.5
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 7:49 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 8:58 am to Dantheman504
Ok if you’re gonna throw stats also state Dyson played nearly 5 minutes a game more than Christie. If you watched basketball, not just the pelicans, you can see a vast difference between the two in summer league and preseason. Christie dominated summer league and has been very efficient and offensively aggressive. Literally tried to dunk on someone head from free throw line last night, meanwhile Dyson on the second unit is deferring to Seabron and Kira.
I dont underestimate his potential. I just dont think he achieves his potential especially with the pelicans group that wont give him the minutes he needs.
I dont underestimate his potential. I just dont think he achieves his potential especially with the pelicans group that wont give him the minutes he needs.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 9:36 am to Pels_Yaz
Ok so add a 5min average to it.
Christie:
4.2Pts
2.5Reb
.8AST
Your comment of Christie “blossoming before your eyes” with those stat comparisons just doesn’t compute. Yeah he is a better offensive player than Dyson (right now). That’s about the only thing or comparison you can give at this time. Anything else is just premature.
You are also strictly comparing them offensively like defense doesn’t play into their overall impact at all.
Dyson will get the minutes. Our draft that year was very unique. Not many teams with 3 all star level players get a lottery pick. And the few times it happens that player will almost always play less than a player on a trash team or a team with 3 max contracts and scrubs.
The comparison makes it seem like Offense is the only deciding factor in all of this.
Jaxson Hayes has dunked on people’s heads what is your point there? He is exciting so he automatically is blossoming?
Christie:
4.2Pts
2.5Reb
.8AST
Your comment of Christie “blossoming before your eyes” with those stat comparisons just doesn’t compute. Yeah he is a better offensive player than Dyson (right now). That’s about the only thing or comparison you can give at this time. Anything else is just premature.
You are also strictly comparing them offensively like defense doesn’t play into their overall impact at all.
Dyson will get the minutes. Our draft that year was very unique. Not many teams with 3 all star level players get a lottery pick. And the few times it happens that player will almost always play less than a player on a trash team or a team with 3 max contracts and scrubs.
The comparison makes it seem like Offense is the only deciding factor in all of this.
Jaxson Hayes has dunked on people’s heads what is your point there? He is exciting so he automatically is blossoming?
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 9:38 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 9:46 am to Dantheman504
Lol im not talking about their rookie years. Christie has taken a very good leap in summer league and the last two preseason games. Dyson seems the same as last year. Christie is also a very good defender, not at Dyson’s level but solid nonetheless plus Dyson was a lottery pick and Christie was drafted in late first round for context.
Why are you so certain Dyson will get minutes? He’s like the 9th best guy on our team and has shown nothing to show he deserves extended minutes to move up on rotation.
Lol lets bring Jaxson Hayes in here for no reason. I brought christie’s dunk attempt to exemplify his offensive aggression while Dyson is constantly deferring to other players of less ability on offense. Dyson’s main issue is his lack of offensive aggression and any offensive identity. Something Willie has pointed out as well. We still have no idea what Dyson actually does on offense??
Why are you so certain Dyson will get minutes? He’s like the 9th best guy on our team and has shown nothing to show he deserves extended minutes to move up on rotation.
Lol lets bring Jaxson Hayes in here for no reason. I brought christie’s dunk attempt to exemplify his offensive aggression while Dyson is constantly deferring to other players of less ability on offense. Dyson’s main issue is his lack of offensive aggression and any offensive identity. Something Willie has pointed out as well. We still have no idea what Dyson actually does on offense??
Posted on 10/12/23 at 10:44 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Lol im not talking about their rookie years. Christie has taken a very good leap in summer league and the last two preseason games
So this whole thing is not based off a full year of stats but summer league and 2 preseason games?
quote:
Why are you so certain Dyson will get minutes?
DEFENSE
How many times do I need to explain this? He is already the 2nd best defender behind Herb Jones. HERB IS 5 YEARS OLDER THAN DYSON. Let that sink in for his defensive potential.
quote:
Literally tried to dunk on someone head from free throw line last night, meanwhile Dyson on the second unit is deferring
You are the one who gave that example to help your point. I simply said Hayes does that too and is mid.
So your issue with him is that he is hesitant and that we haven’t figured out his offensive identity after he played half a season as PG without our best players?
I get your point and I don’t disagree that his weakness is offense and aggression on offense. But that’s it. And that’s also pretty much the main things that a 19y/o rookie struggles with and improves on every single season.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 10:47 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 10:49 am to Pels_Yaz
I just don’t see how people can worship Herb after his rookie season with elite defense and mediocre offense @ 24 y/o
And doubt Dyson after a nearly elite defensive year with very mediocre offense @ 19 y/o
I love Herb btw. This isn’t a stab at all. It’s the fact that Dyson has 3+ seasons to even get close to where Herb is right now at the same age and everyone loves Herb + his potential. So why all this doubt for Dyson? I don’t get it.
And doubt Dyson after a nearly elite defensive year with very mediocre offense @ 19 y/o
I love Herb btw. This isn’t a stab at all. It’s the fact that Dyson has 3+ seasons to even get close to where Herb is right now at the same age and everyone loves Herb + his potential. So why all this doubt for Dyson? I don’t get it.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 10:51 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:16 pm to Dantheman504
Because look at our history. The pelicans will not sit here developing Dyson for 4 to 5 years unless he shows major potential by year 2 like Trey. You really think the pels will be patient waiting for Dyson to develop in 5 years? The other issue is money; unlike Herb or Jose- Dyson extension will be expensive since hes a lottery pick (same issue as Kira now) and they wont pay him unless hes at Trey Murphy’s level. When is the last time they did that with a player? If your argument is well they paid Herb. They’re not paying Dyson the same money for another shutdown defender who cant play offense unless he makes significant strides. To top it off main goal is to contend with BI Zion and CJ and if Dyson is taking too long to develop he’ll be flipped for a playoff ready piece.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:34 pm to Dantheman504
“How many times do I need to explain this? He is already the 2nd best defender behind Herb Jones. HERB IS 5 YEARS OLDER THAN DYSON. Let that sink in for his defensive potential. “
- I’ll say this again you cant play Herb and Dyson together. Its offensive suicide. If thats the case Herb will eat up Dysons minutes and he wont develop as needed. Yes Herb is older but hes playoff ready now for a core ready to make a playoff run. Dyson’s development will take a backseat if his offense doesn’t develop this season.
Its not that “WE” haven’t figured his offensive identity. DYSON hasnt. Willie literally has said Dyson has to make an offense identity. Majority of nba players on a nba team even the young ones have some sort of offensive role. Name one thing Dyson does well on offense? For Herb hes an excellent cutter and superb transition player.
My final point is this coaching staff and team is not going to prioritize Dysons development. The priority is the core and making playoffs. If Dyson isn’t helping with that (which he still hasn’t shown offensively he can; and his elite skill of defense is not as good as Herbs) his development will get stunted and it won’t matter if hes 19 or 25.
- I’ll say this again you cant play Herb and Dyson together. Its offensive suicide. If thats the case Herb will eat up Dysons minutes and he wont develop as needed. Yes Herb is older but hes playoff ready now for a core ready to make a playoff run. Dyson’s development will take a backseat if his offense doesn’t develop this season.
Its not that “WE” haven’t figured his offensive identity. DYSON hasnt. Willie literally has said Dyson has to make an offense identity. Majority of nba players on a nba team even the young ones have some sort of offensive role. Name one thing Dyson does well on offense? For Herb hes an excellent cutter and superb transition player.
My final point is this coaching staff and team is not going to prioritize Dysons development. The priority is the core and making playoffs. If Dyson isn’t helping with that (which he still hasn’t shown offensively he can; and his elite skill of defense is not as good as Herbs) his development will get stunted and it won’t matter if hes 19 or 25.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:41 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Because look at our history.
We are trying to change and get rid of any bad habit/ organizational flaw that kept us in mediocrity during our entire history. That’s exactly why it has been different and should be viewed different.
Your argument is that “we have made such bad decision in the past and haven’t developed players so why would we start now”.
Dyson is NOT 24/ 25 y/o like Herb, Jose, etcc. That’s exactly why we WILL wait to develop him. If we can flip him for SGA you do it but other than that I’m not sure what you are trying to say.
quote:
To top it off main goal is to contend with BI Zion and CJ and if Dyson is taking too long to develop he’ll be flipped for a playoff ready piece
This is false. The main goal is to develop a winning culture and have a chance to be a successful franchise that contends for many years. You do that by developing players not going all in for 2 years. The goal is to contend with BI/ Zion. If they mature and stay healthy there’s a chance to do that with CJ. But that wasn’t the goal, that’s just what could happen if everything goes right.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:44 pm to Pels_Yaz
No one is trading the potential of Dyson and his career for the chance to contend with CJ. If Dyson gets traded to contend then CJ will be the main salary piece in that trade to make it work.
Dyson is very much here to be one of the people to replace CJ as BI/ Zion develop and we build around them.
Dyson is very much here to be one of the people to replace CJ as BI/ Zion develop and we build around them.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:51 pm to Dantheman504
“Dyson is NOT 24/ 25 y/o like Herb, Jose, etcc. That’s exactly why we WILL wait to develop him. If we can flip him for SGA you do it but other than that I’m not sure what you are trying to say.”
- why would we wait to develop for 4 to 5 years???!? For what reason if he doesn’t show any offensive potential in his first two years (Dyson has to show something offensivily this second year). Flip him for SGA- thats a ludicrous statement to even make lol
“This is false. The main goal is to develop a winning culture and have a chance to be a successful franchise that contends for many years. You do that by developing players not going all in for 2 years. The goal is to contend with BI/ Zion. If they mature and stay healthy there’s a chance to do that with CJ. But that wasn’t the goal, that’s just what could happen if everything goes right.”
- what are you talking about? We signed CJ to long term extension in his 30s. BI is a free agent in 2 years. Griffin and Willie need to win and make playoffs these next two years. If not they’re gone. They’re basically going in for two years to see how far this core goes. Dyson’s development will not play into that. Contending for many years??? Lol how long have you been a pelicans fan???
- why would we wait to develop for 4 to 5 years???!? For what reason if he doesn’t show any offensive potential in his first two years (Dyson has to show something offensivily this second year). Flip him for SGA- thats a ludicrous statement to even make lol
“This is false. The main goal is to develop a winning culture and have a chance to be a successful franchise that contends for many years. You do that by developing players not going all in for 2 years. The goal is to contend with BI/ Zion. If they mature and stay healthy there’s a chance to do that with CJ. But that wasn’t the goal, that’s just what could happen if everything goes right.”
- what are you talking about? We signed CJ to long term extension in his 30s. BI is a free agent in 2 years. Griffin and Willie need to win and make playoffs these next two years. If not they’re gone. They’re basically going in for two years to see how far this core goes. Dyson’s development will not play into that. Contending for many years??? Lol how long have you been a pelicans fan???
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:52 pm to Dantheman504
Replace CJ- hahahahaha. You must be related to Dyson lol
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:54 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
My final point is this coaching staff and team is not going to prioritize Dysons development. The priority is the core and making playoffs.
You’d be a terrible FO personnel or decision maker with this thought process. The team isn’t going to prioritize developing their rookies….
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:58 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
if Dyson is taking too long to develop he’ll be flipped for a playoff ready piece.
quote:
Replace CJ- hahahahaha. You must be related to Dyson lol
Ahhh yes we will flip Dyson’s rookie contract for a “playoff ready piece”.
Lolol
We aren’t trading Zion,BI, Herb, Trey. Whose salary do you think gets traded along with Dyson’s contract to get this “playoff ready piece”.
Again…. Terrible decision maker
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