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Started By
Message
re: Dont Forget: Kira first game TODAY! 11AM CST
Posted on 11/17/22 at 3:37 pm to 3PieceSpicy
Posted on 11/17/22 at 3:37 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
Happy he had a good game, but Maxey regularly puts up 18 in a half of a nba game if he gets some looks
18 in a g league game is like scoring 4 points in the nba
Harper for instance averaged over 20 points on wildly efficient fg and three point % last year in the g league and also about 8 ast a game
I didn’t see you guys hyping that up
Let’s try to be consistent and objective here
Harper, a 5’10” 24 year old, averaged 21pts 5.6 assists and 3tov in 32 minutes while shooting 43% from the field last year.
Kira, a 21 year old coming off a major surgery, scored 18 points, 2asts, 3stl, 0tov, and 0pf in 17 minutes on 64% from the field.
They’re not the same. I understand that making a final judgment, either way, is premature but your argument is just silly. I don’t know why people are so quick to downplay Kira’s first game back. Today was a positive data point for Kira’s future. An albeit small data point, but a positive data point nonetheless.
0
Posted on 11/17/22 at 3:44 pm to Bronc
I’m not saying Kira is better than Graham right now. I’m saying he CAN be better than Graham and maybe by the end of this year with playing time. That’s a big maybe but not impossible. Beyond that Graham won’t be on our roster next year and Kira has a decent chance to be. So yes Graham is playing but it’s not a need. We kind of need to see what Kira can bring before next year. Graham is already gone.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 3:50 pm to Baron
quote:
I watched nearly all of his minutes today. He looks like he’s put on some good weight, he moved laterally fine, and he showed he still has his quickness by exploding into the lane on a few occasions. That’s the only thing I was really looking for from him in this game and that’s what I got. While I am in no way ready to declare him a future rotation player, I don’t know how anyone couldn’t be encouraged by what they saw.
Frankly, we're seeing that this coaching staff values defensive awareness and intensity. I think that's something that he needs to work on, and I saw a few lapses from Kira, but that could very well be rust.
I also like his speed, but to stick in the NBA, he's going to need to work on a little change of pace to his game. This falls into the old "be quick but don't hurry" adage.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 3:52 pm to Dantheman504
Gotcha
Not sure I see him getting playing time out of the G League much though barring major injuries, but I'm all for staying invested in him.
Can never have enough cheap depth
Not sure I see him getting playing time out of the G League much though barring major injuries, but I'm all for staying invested in him.
Can never have enough cheap depth
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:00 pm to Bronc
Kira should be taking all of Graham and Najis minutes IMO. Obviously it’s not a lot to go around but having Kira/ Dyson instead of Naji/ Graham is a much better fit next to the rest of our bench players. They also compliment our starting group better. This isn’t a stab at Naji but neither him or Graham can run the offense. Kira has a better vision than those guys and can help us run a lot more fluid scheme with Trey/ Nance. We can also put him out there to tire out opposing teams PG/ SG much like Jose does on the defensive end.
To have Jose chasing guys down and making life hard on defense while also forcing those same guys to chase down Kira on offense will help towards the end of games.
To have Jose chasing guys down and making life hard on defense while also forcing those same guys to chase down Kira on offense will help towards the end of games.
This post was edited on 11/17/22 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:03 pm to Dantheman504
Kira wearing down defenders and creating open shots vs Graham taking running 3’s 6 seconds into the shot clock with minimal offensive/ defensive movement is a game changer to me.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:16 pm to Dantheman504
Here are some highlights. The thing I like the most are multiple finishes at the rim with bigger defenders on top of him. If he can finish through contact that's enough offense to get minutes.
LINK
People think Kira needs to shoot 3s well to take Graham's minutes, but look at his steals. Think of a lineup with Jose/Kira/Herb/Dyson/Nance No spacing on offense, but between long arm deflections and high speed interceptions, they'll get a ton of turnovers and transition baskets. That might be enough to be a net positive unit even with no half court offense.
LINK
People think Kira needs to shoot 3s well to take Graham's minutes, but look at his steals. Think of a lineup with Jose/Kira/Herb/Dyson/Nance No spacing on offense, but between long arm deflections and high speed interceptions, they'll get a ton of turnovers and transition baskets. That might be enough to be a net positive unit even with no half court offense.
This post was edited on 11/17/22 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:28 pm to Dantheman504
quote:That's like 30+ minutes a game, no chance we should be doing that.
Kira should be taking all of Graham and Najis minutes IMO
quote:If you're giving Kira all of Graham/Naji's minutes, Dyson isn't in the rotation then.
Obviously it’s not a lot to go around but having Kira/ Dyson instead of Naji/ Graham is a much better fit next to the rest of our bench players.
quote:Why do you think that? For their careers, Kira's best assist per 100 possessions is worse than Graham's worst season in the same stat. I don't see where there is any evidence that Kira has better vision than Graham? Graham is a dude who finished I believe top 5 in assists in the entire NBA while with Charlotte.
Kira has a better vision than those guy
quote:Not if Kira is sub 40 from the field and sub 30 from 3.
To have Jose chasing guys down and making life hard on defense while also forcing those same guys to chase down Kira on offense will help towards the end of games.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:37 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
I’m not saying Kira is better than Graham right now. I’m saying he CAN be better than Graham and maybe by the end of this year with playing time. That’s a big maybe but not impossible. Beyond that Graham won’t be on our roster next year and Kira has a decent chance to be. So yes Graham is playing but it’s not a need. We kind of need to see what Kira can bring before next year. Graham is already gone.
Hopefully Willie sticks to Graham getting a max of 9-10 minutes a game like he has here recently. We can dream right? I like Graham and think he has played pretty well this year and surprising good on defense. Although advanced stats will tell you otherwise. But we %100 know what we are getting in Graham. As it sits, he is never the reason we win or lose games. Even though he might only get 10 minutes a game, they are not garbage minutes, he is playing with our stars. Give me 10 minutes of Kira in non garbage time and see what happens. He's not going to win or lose you games, but you can still develop him into what you possibly need/see his potential unlike Graham. But I'd be fine keeping it the way it is right now, Kira in the G League and Graham getting a handful of minutes until the deadline. I think Graham is playing decent enough to show other teams that he can add some value somewhere, just slap a trade sign on him that says "I am shooting %40 from 3" and someone will bite.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:38 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Kira should be taking all of Graham and Najis minutes IMO. Obviously it’s not a lot to go around but having Kira/ Dyson instead of Naji/ Graham is a much better fit next to the rest of our bench players. They also compliment our starting group better. This isn’t a stab at Naji but neither him or Graham can run the offense. Kira has a better vision than those guys and can help us run a lot more fluid scheme with Trey/ Nance. We can also put him out there to tire out opposing teams PG/ SG much like Jose does on the defensive end.
Kira is not good enough to take anyone’s minutes right now and mostly likely won’t be till after the all star break at the earliest.
That’s not even getting into the fact that dropping Naji AND Graham out of the rotation would be 28 minutes we’d need to replace from two different positions
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:43 pm to shel311
I meant Kira/ Dyson should take all of Naji/ Grahams minutes. Sprinkle in Naji for matchup purposes. I’m also using this as an example going forward because again Graham doesn’t have a future with us and Kira/ Dyson should get the minutes regardless.
Graham is gone after this year give Kira the minutes regardless to see what we have.
List of players Kira was a PG for at 18-19 y/o:
Eric Bledsoe
NAW
Washed JJ redick
Wenyen Gabriel
DidI Loutrash
Wes iwundu
Satoransky
Tony Snell
Garrett Temple
That’s the players he was passing to for shots. So yes his assists will go up passing to Trey, Nance, BI, etccc. It’s not his fault he gave them shots and they were trash. He also has real coaches now with a real system. I’ve explained this 10x over and keep having to repeat myself.
Please don’t say “for their careers” comparing Graham and Kira. One is 21 y/o with absolute shite coaches/ teammates and the other is a 27 y/o finished product.
Some of the things I’ve explained and laid out are very obvious if you’ve watched Kira play in the past. I’m not blaming him at 18 y/o for how the system was set up. Kira with THIS team and THESE coaches has plenty of potential.
Graham is gone after this year give Kira the minutes regardless to see what we have.
List of players Kira was a PG for at 18-19 y/o:
Eric Bledsoe
NAW
Washed JJ redick
Wenyen Gabriel
DidI Loutrash
Wes iwundu
Satoransky
Tony Snell
Garrett Temple
That’s the players he was passing to for shots. So yes his assists will go up passing to Trey, Nance, BI, etccc. It’s not his fault he gave them shots and they were trash. He also has real coaches now with a real system. I’ve explained this 10x over and keep having to repeat myself.
Please don’t say “for their careers” comparing Graham and Kira. One is 21 y/o with absolute shite coaches/ teammates and the other is a 27 y/o finished product.
Some of the things I’ve explained and laid out are very obvious if you’ve watched Kira play in the past. I’m not blaming him at 18 y/o for how the system was set up. Kira with THIS team and THESE coaches has plenty of potential.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:47 pm to Baron
Kira won’t ever get better without getting minutes. Graham is gone after this year. I don’t give a shite about his ability to go 2-4 in 10 minutes off the bench when he isn’t on our roster next year.
We most likely aren’t winning a championship this year and neither Graham or Naji will be that deciding factor so give Dyson and Kira the minutes. Y’all are bringing up moot points for someone who is essentially irrelevant to our team and future. The only thing that matters right now is for and growth. Dyson and Kira need minutes.
We most likely aren’t winning a championship this year and neither Graham or Naji will be that deciding factor so give Dyson and Kira the minutes. Y’all are bringing up moot points for someone who is essentially irrelevant to our team and future. The only thing that matters right now is for and growth. Dyson and Kira need minutes.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:52 pm to Dantheman504
The problem with your plan is that we don’t just give out minutes. If you give minutes to Kira for those reasons then you are going against the culture Willie, et al have been carefully constructing. On paper, it would be best for the long-term outlook of the team to play Jax, but Willie doesn’t do it. Why? Because he hasn’t earned it.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:53 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Kira won’t ever get better without getting minutes. Graham is gone after this year. I don’t give a shite about his ability to go 2-4 in 10 minutes off the bench when he isn’t on our roster next year.
On Graham, I can't see how letting him play a few minutes per game can increase his trade value...so...I just assume they think it could hurt his eventual trade value, if they just stuck him on the end of the bench and never played him. Sorta like sayin'...this guy is totally worthless & ohh, by the way...anybody interested in trading for him?? That's about all I can come up with on this situation.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:58 pm to Dantheman504
quote:Well, you can't use shite players/coaches while comparing to Graham who put up big assist numbers on some shitty Charlotte teams. But anyway, Kira has never shown anything to assume he has better vision than Graham, that's fairly certain. You're projecting what you hope his vision can be, but we haven't seen that yet and don't know if it can be that.
Please don’t say “for their careers” comparing Graham and Kira. One is 21 y/o with absolute shite coaches/ teammates and the other is a 27 y/o finished product.
quote:Graham was 8th in the entire NBA in assists on a 23-42 team. Again, just pointing out you can't simply say Kira has better vision than Graham when we've never seen a shred of evidence to confirm that. Again, now I'm repeating...the hope is he gets there and does that. We don't know that he will, and it's more likely he won't get to the upper level of Graham's passing/vision that Graham has done and proven.
That’s the players he was passing to for shots. So yes his assists will go up passing to Trey, Nance, BI, etccc. It’s not his fault he gave them shots and they were trash. He also has real coaches now with a real system. I’ve explained this 10x over and keep having to repeat myself.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 4:59 pm to Baron
No that’s not true. Jaxson will also not be on our roster next year so there’s no reason to give him minutes beyond the fact that he also hasn’t earned it. And we are going with our culture by picking up Kira’s option after injury and giving him that chance. We didn’t pick up that option to NOT play him. So we are going against our culture by playing a guy who may be on our team in the future and sitting a guy who is gone next year?
I get what you are saying but we aren’t talking about star players or big time minutes. We need to see what Kira can bring and we know what we have with Graham. It’s not changing the culture by giving him minutes and sitting a guy who won’t be a part of our culture at all next year.
I get what you are saying but we aren’t talking about star players or big time minutes. We need to see what Kira can bring and we know what we have with Graham. It’s not changing the culture by giving him minutes and sitting a guy who won’t be a part of our culture at all next year.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 5:03 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
On Graham, I can't see how letting him play a few minutes per game can increase his trade value
I think Graham has done enough to rehab his trade value as much as it can be. What has to be navigated is sending a guy to the bench that "did nothing wrong" without crushing the morale of the bottom of the rotation.
The same can be said of Naji. Dyson is going to have to take those minutes, which he will. That's what Kira would need to do too, and like Dyson, getting enough run to show he's better will be the hard part.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 5:12 pm to TigerinATL
with regard to graham, he’s a pro and he’s not stupid. He and his agent are fully aware of the pels’ roster and payroll situation next year. He and his agent are also fully aware that regardless of how much he plays this year, next year would be less.
he’s getting his money regardless. I would assume that his team is or will soon be in communication with Griffin on trade options. We just need some other team (lakers) to ask for him
Pels don’t have a 2nd round pick this draft. Beverly and the bulls 2nd for graham. Buy out Beverly. Profit
he’s getting his money regardless. I would assume that his team is or will soon be in communication with Griffin on trade options. We just need some other team (lakers) to ask for him
Pels don’t have a 2nd round pick this draft. Beverly and the bulls 2nd for graham. Buy out Beverly. Profit
Posted on 11/17/22 at 5:18 pm to cgrand
quote:Only if we're buying him our or ensuring he never sniffs our rotation.
Pels don’t have a 2nd round pick this draft. Beverly and the bulls 2nd for graham. Buy out Beverly. Profit
But truthfully, I don't like this at all as I'd rather keep graham's salary for a trade for an actual useful rotational piece.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 5:25 pm to shel311
says right in the post to buy him out.
Pels are most likely getting a free lottery pick again this year. They’ve got dyson to develop, they’ve got Liddell to develop, etc. the goal of a graham trade should be to get off his 2023 and 24 money and clear the roster spot
next season with the subtraction of Hayes, Graham and Temple they’ll be set up to go
Pels are most likely getting a free lottery pick again this year. They’ve got dyson to develop, they’ve got Liddell to develop, etc. the goal of a graham trade should be to get off his 2023 and 24 money and clear the roster spot
next season with the subtraction of Hayes, Graham and Temple they’ll be set up to go
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