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Started By
Message
re: B.I. tidbits (rumors maybe)
Posted on 8/7/23 at 3:31 pm to shel311
Posted on 8/7/23 at 3:31 pm to shel311
quote:
It's wild to me that you don't understand that good players don't retire before 30 very often
I don't care enough to make the distinction. He's not going to be good enough for it to matter.
quote:
just can't fathom why you're arguing against it.
I made a statement that people always take umbrage with, so it results in this. I'm not arguing or debating, I'm recognizing a fact. I'll put this out there one more time.
More than 500 guys played in the NBA last year. Less than 100 over the age of 30. Of that, maybe 30 were really good to exceptional players. If you truly believe that Ingram is going to end up being one of those guys, then more power to you..
1
Posted on 8/7/23 at 3:43 pm to brmark70816
quote:I don't even know if you realized it, but that post is legit you stating there's just as good of a chance that he's not good enough to be in the league 3 years from now like an NBA journeyman than he is still be a good player at 30.
I don't care enough to make the distinction. He's not going to be good enough for it to matter.
quote:You still haven't explained how borderline #2, probably #3 very good players overwhelmingly retire before 30 for the numbers to be "massively in your favor" but I digress. You seem intent to lump BI in with dudes who are end of the bench dudes whose careers fizzle out and just above legit stated that he's just as likely to be one of those dudes 3 years from now, which is wild.
More than 500 guys played in the NBA last year. Less than 100 over the age of 30. Of that, maybe 30 were really good to exceptional players. If you truly believe that Ingram is going to end up being one of those guys, then more power to you..
Posted on 8/7/23 at 3:47 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It's rare for a NBA player to make it into his 30s
Remember that the majority of players drafted are over the age of 20 considering this goes back to 1966 when most guys spent at least 3 years in college.
I'm sure if you remove the busts from this data, that number goes up significantly, but top picks are playing 10+ years easily, and into their 30's.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 3:50 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Exactly.
I'm sure if you remove the busts from this data
That's what I keep trying to point out to him, but he's not understanding.
He defined BI has a borderline #2, probably #3 player. Those dudes rarely retire before 30.
All the dudes that drive down the averages, the vast majority of the time are dudes not good enough to last 10 years in the NBA.
It's a very simple concept, to be honest.
quote:It's crazy that we're even having this conversation and not all in agreement with this.
but top picks are playing 10+ years easily, and into their 30's.
This post was edited on 8/7/23 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 8/7/23 at 4:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
but top picks are playing 10+ years easily, and into their 30's.
All of them?
How many good-great players are there in the NBA over 30?
This is where the debate falls apart. Yes, there are quite a few. Probably 30 or so. That's the average year by year. The league is not getting older.
So the math does not support every good-great player making into their 30s. It's not a certainty. So is it more likely than not? 50/50?
Posted on 8/7/23 at 4:21 pm to brmark70816
quote:Mostly the good ones, you already said BI is a "very good player" so...
All of them?
quote:That's a different argument. You started by stating he'll be out of the NBA by 30, is it now shifting to he won't be good by age 30?
How many good-great players are there in the NBA over 30?
quote:It's not about every player or a certain, you're speaking in absolutes.
So the math does not support every good-great player making into their 30s. It's not a certainty.
quote:Yes
So is it more likely than not?
quote:I'll ask you for probably the 5th time a variation of this question, do you think 50% of very good players who are borderline #2 but proabably #3 dudes at 26 are out of the NBA at 30? THAT is the main question in this discussion, and one you haven't answered yet
50/50?
This post was edited on 8/7/23 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 8/7/23 at 4:35 pm to brmark70816
quote:
All of them?
i would think you are capable of using your brain here.
Why would a top pick not make it past 10+ years? #1 reason would be b/c he sucks and was never any good. Next reason would be b/c he had an injury that derailed his career.
There are no other reasons.
BI doesn't suck, and you were asked to find guys that didn't suck that were retiring by 30. You've yet to do that.
quote:
How many good-great players are there in the NBA over 30?
You mean how many guys that have made an all-star team retired when they were 30? That's the question you were asked to answer.
To help answer your question, this past year there were 108 players that played a game in the nba and were 30+.
33 of them averaged at least 14ppg.
quote:
So the math does not support every good-great player making into their 30s. It's not a certainty. So is it more likely than not? 50/50?
what on earth makes you believe this? I just showed you that the average top pick will make it 10+ seasons. What that means is that they were actually good. You don't play 10+ seasons if you aren't good.
I get what you're trying to say somewhat, but using 30 as the cutoff is just stupid. If you'd say about 33, then i would agree. You'll still find those outliers of guys that are still very good at 32, 33 and above, but most guys start to decline a good bit by 32/33.
BI is not at his peak, and he certainly isn't past it. Peak athleticism might be around age 24-25, but peak play is more around 27-28, when you still have that ridiculous athleticism but you are much much wiser b/c of the experience you have. Also at around that age more guys start looking for more stability in their life, maybe having a family, and also have made their money and are becoming more and more interesting in team success than personal success. When you're 23 it's cool to make the all-star team, regardless of what your team did. When you're 28, you could give two shits about the all-star game. YOu want to win a championship.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 4:40 pm to TeddyPadillac
Lol you guys are getting every hedge imaginable from Mark right now.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 5:26 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
i would think you are capable of using your brain here.
That's where you would be wrong. His brain doesn't work the same way that everyone else's does. He can be very intelligent about some things and completely retarded about others.
Fun Bunch and I argued for a long time about whether he was trolling or not, and we eventually came to the conclusion that he is not.
I would guess that there's something like high-functioning autism going on.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 6:14 pm to GOP_Tiger
I'm not even sure what you guys are discussing...but one thing is for sure. The NBA is getting younger & younger. Old codgers are being run out of the league earlier & earlier...as the "pace of play" has increased.
Stat I found interesting? Percentage of players in the NBA that are over 30 years old?
2001...35%
Today...20%
The game has obviously "sped up" & is becoming more & more of a young man's game.
Stat I found interesting? Percentage of players in the NBA that are over 30 years old?
2001...35%
Today...20%
The game has obviously "sped up" & is becoming more & more of a young man's game.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 6:55 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
would guess that there's something like high-functioning autism going on.
Sweet. I'm sure that would include some sort of disability or special license plate. I need to get on that.
This is the weird part of this whole debate. I'm saying he's going to be done by 30. So out of the league. It's a bold statement.
Now all these people come back at me saying I'm wrong. That's means he will definitely be in the league after he's 30. So that's just as bold of a belief.
But yet, only one version is viewed as being outlandish or extreme. I don't see how this is the case. If there was such thing as a futures bet on this whole topic, I'm pretty sure it's going my way. I have 5 full seasons to see if I'm right..
Posted on 8/7/23 at 7:18 pm to brmark70816
quote:
only one version is viewed as being outlandish or extreme. I don't see how this is the case
Because it's a bad take you backed up with bad evidence.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 7:27 pm to brmark70816
quote:Well, you also said the numbers are "massively in your favor" and numerous times ignored the context of why that isn't a logical statement. Peopled tried to explain it to you multiple times very logically and you insisted that they were just adding random qualifiers for the heck of it when any other, again, logical person would surmise why that context was necessary. So there's that too.
This is the weird part of this whole debate. I'm saying he's going to be done by 30. So out of the league. It's a bold statement
quote:You're very likely the one around here who thinks that.
But yet, only one version is viewed as being outlandish or extreme. I don't see how this is the case
quote:If Bovada or whoever took odds on this, your side would be the absolute extreme underdog. The whole reason why people think you troll or whatever other things like autism that I'm not claiming is because you can't seem to even grasp the very simple concept that your opinion is an extreme minority and you actually think that would be the betting favorite and the odds makers would have BI retiring before 30 as a "massive" underdog play.
If there was such thing as a futures bet on this whole topic, I'm pretty sure it's going my way. I have 5 full seasons to see if I'm right..
The inability to see the very obvious is why people scratch their heads.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 8:24 pm to shel311
quote:
The inability to see the very obvious is why people scratch their heads.
And the inability to learn. When I first starting posting a lot in here in Pels Talk, there was a lot I didn't understand about the NBA. I made a lot of dumb posts, people corrected me, and I learned and, eventually, made fewer dumb posts.
But, brmark, if you're so against older players, why did you want to trade for Westbrook two years ago, when he was 32?
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:47 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Some of the stuff you post makes me wonder if you even follow the NBA. Most stars play into their 30s. Not sure why you think BI would be done by 30 unless you have a crystal ball showing you he will incur a serious injury.
Yeah. I’ve often questioned if he follows the nba.
This was the guy saying Ingram was disengaged with the franchise.
At 25 he is going to be starting for Team USA. Most of the other guys on that level are 10 years older than him.
He names multiple players with degenerative knee issues like Roy and Granger to claim “evidence”
BigRandyMark:
If you’re going to troll the NBA internet as it seems be to much more clear that this is your intention, why waste your time on TD?
Make social media posts and monetize your tolling!
ETA: bookmarking your posts is my favorite off-season pastime.
This post was edited on 8/8/23 at 7:23 am
Posted on 8/8/23 at 7:16 am to brmark70816
quote:
I'm pretty sure it's going my way. I have 5 full seasons to see if I'm right..
Great. Just great. Travel forum here I come.
Posted on 8/8/23 at 7:57 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
At 25 he is going to be starting for Team USA. Most of the other guys on that level are 10 years older than him
See, how do i get blasted for shite, but stuff like this gets a total pass?
Seriously, we all see that is totally off base and in no way true. But it just slips by..
quote:
why waste your time on TD?
What are you talking about? I've been posting on here over 10 years. Why should I leave?
quote:
He names multiple players with degenerative knee issues like Roy and Granger to claim “evidence”
I normally never respond to you, because you are just mean and toxic. But you really don't have a clue.
Ingram has been injured 5 seasons in a row. You think it's a 100% certainty he makes it 5 more years with no injuries or 'degenerative' conditions holding him back?
Posted on 8/8/23 at 8:35 am to brmark70816
quote:
See, how do i get blasted for shite, but stuff like this gets a total pass?
i would agree. i don't know what the hell that means. 35 year olds aren't the ones starting for Team USA.
quote:
Ingram has been injured 5 seasons in a row. You think it's a 100% certainty he makes it 5 more years with no injuries or 'degenerative' conditions holding him back?
Has BI had issues with his knee, which is what every player you tried to mention had that derailed their career by age 30? NO.
Jrue played in 206 games for the Pels in his first 4 years at age 23-26.
BI has played in 223 in 4 years at age 22-25.
Jrue has gone on to play in at least 82% (67 out of 82 or 59 out of 72) of the games played each season over the last 6 seasons, where he is now 33 years old.
i don't understand why you just assume he'll have a career ending injury. That's not the type of injury that's been bothering him, so why would you think that will happen?
Posted on 8/8/23 at 8:54 am to brmark70816
quote:
What are you talking about? I've been posting on here over 10 years. Why should I leave?
What are you talking about? I was giving you positive support. These others guys were abusing you. I was at least passing you the lube.
quote:
Seriously, we all see that is totally off base and in no way true. But it just slips by..
Is Brandon Ingram starting for team USA? Yes.
Are most of the guys on that level (LeBron and Durant) older than him? Yes. Tatum is probably the only other SF that would start for team USA.
quote:
But you really don't have a clue.
I don’t say this to be mean, but to say that my NBA IQ is evidently and vastly superior to yours, in every way, is an understatement.
quote:
I normally never respond to you, .
You respond to me when I want you to. I take it easy on you because you’re very fragile, defensive even about your terrible posts, that you routinely double down on.
Fact of the matter is, you call it critiquing Ingram, who is starting for Team USA, when really you’ve spent years shitting on him…ie not bought in. Now you’re claiming that he’s past his prime(which he is just now entering) and will be out of the league in 4 years.
After supplying bad evidence, you pat yourself on the back for making “bold ”predictions …it’s talking head syndrome.
quote:
You think it's a 100% certainty he makes it 5 more years with no injuries or 'degenerative' conditions holding him back?
That you attempt to back the counter argument into “100% certainty” when you are making the claim he is out of the league with the “numbers being on your side” despite no hard explanation on why he would is a bad faith argument.
Why are putting degenerative in quotations, here? To negate that this board pointed out your bad evidence? To mock the counterpoint? There has been no diagnosis thus far of any degenerative issues for Ingram.
You’re just babbling here.
quote:
because you are just mean and toxic
Meh, I don’t spend my time on this board shitting on players (for the most part)… & anyone who’s met me knows I’m diehard Pels fan who is the type you want to watch a game with. I’ve made fans of the Pels when people watch with me. But this is you making it personal, not me.
I will say this again, you could monetize your low IQ basketball takes. Seriously. A quick misspelled meme or bad faith out of context video can get the internet riled up and all of a sudden you’re over 100k views or clicks. Use your talent of not understanding basketball, then pretending that you do, to get a little extra cash. I believe you can do it. I’m rooting for you.
This post was edited on 8/8/23 at 8:58 am
Posted on 8/8/23 at 8:55 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
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