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Started By
Message
re: BI needs to be benched in the 4th
Posted on 1/12/22 at 3:10 pm to lsutigers23
Posted on 1/12/22 at 3:10 pm to lsutigers23
BI is 43% from the field and 37% from three in the fourth, he's fine.
The complaint has been around his clutch numbers, which arent great, but people are being very narrow-minded about it and not seeing the whole picture.
Most clutch situations BI is surrounded by two mostly non-shooters and has no real dribble penetrating playmaker to set him, or anyone, up, so out of necessity the ball is forced into his hands, and defenses know this, so they can scheme and anticipate. And with maybe one outlet shooter on the court and no additional high level playmakers or three level scorers, teams are free to double BI, deny entry passes to VAL and smother Te so there arent clean passing lanes or looks, which forces hero ball.
I mean just think it through for a few seconds. Replace one of our guards with a Kyle Lowry or Darius Garland, add a healthy Zion. Instead of the inbound pass having to go through BI and defenses anticipating it, so they can overload defenders onto BI, now you have a three level threat running around that can use dribble pentration and PnR to create looks, break down a defense, and remove the ability to double BI. You have a Zion doing Zion things.
Now BI has an open mid ranger created by him or can use off ball screens to free himself up, or Lowry can be passed to off a BI iso or PnR.
Are we really so naive to not recognize how much that would improve his numbers in the clutch?
The complaint has been around his clutch numbers, which arent great, but people are being very narrow-minded about it and not seeing the whole picture.
Most clutch situations BI is surrounded by two mostly non-shooters and has no real dribble penetrating playmaker to set him, or anyone, up, so out of necessity the ball is forced into his hands, and defenses know this, so they can scheme and anticipate. And with maybe one outlet shooter on the court and no additional high level playmakers or three level scorers, teams are free to double BI, deny entry passes to VAL and smother Te so there arent clean passing lanes or looks, which forces hero ball.
I mean just think it through for a few seconds. Replace one of our guards with a Kyle Lowry or Darius Garland, add a healthy Zion. Instead of the inbound pass having to go through BI and defenses anticipating it, so they can overload defenders onto BI, now you have a three level threat running around that can use dribble pentration and PnR to create looks, break down a defense, and remove the ability to double BI. You have a Zion doing Zion things.
Now BI has an open mid ranger created by him or can use off ball screens to free himself up, or Lowry can be passed to off a BI iso or PnR.
Are we really so naive to not recognize how much that would improve his numbers in the clutch?
This post was edited on 1/12/22 at 3:12 pm
1
Posted on 1/12/22 at 3:34 pm to lsutigers23
quote:
What’s his shooting percentage in the 4th?
For some reason cant break normal stats down by quarter, but advanced stats show his EFG% and True Shooting % as the 3rd quarter being his best and the 4th quarter as 3rd. 1st quarter easily being his worst on average. His usage is %5 higher from the 4th quarter to the 3rd and he's doubled teamed more so its not surprising its not his very best shooting quarter.
quote:
He’s on a max contract sorry that means having higher expectations
But Pels fans, like yourself, want him to be good at everything since he is a max. Just because he's a max doesn't mean he's going to be fantastic at everything. And stats are telling you that he's better at it than you assume.
quote:
Max players you except to Be able to take over in the 4th quarter,
Advanced stats show that the 1st or 2nd greatest player to ever play, Lebron James, worst quarter is the 4th. Should he be benched?
Jason Tatum is maybe a good comparison. Outside of Ingram having a better 3pt and 2pt% (Tatum shoots the three worse and shoots it much more), advanced stats by quarter have them very close. Ingram having a higher ceiling and Ingram a slightly lower floor per game. But Tatum is largely considered a clutch player.
Any players you want me to compare him to? I'll gladly look up anyone. Guys that are clutch players.
quote:
not having threads about him being benched.
Started by you with 47 downvotes and 5 upvotes
quote:
I forgot we can’t call it like we see it.
You keep doing that Ray Charles
Posted on 1/12/22 at 4:12 pm to Bronc
BI has shown flashes of getting over that mental block in the clutch. That’s all we can ask for.
Posted on 1/13/22 at 9:31 pm to lsutigers23
quote:
Dude is legit the most unclutch player ever
Hahahaha I love bumping this thread
Posted on 1/13/22 at 9:40 pm to saintslsupels
Real question though. What are his clutch numbers looking like now? I’d reckon they are still pretty below average. The truth is somewhere in the middle of the haters and the circle-jerkers. I am legitimately very happy for Ingram and the team that they have have success late in games as of late, but until Ingram’s clutch time stats are actually league average, I feel like it’s still the wrong time to jump the shark 180 degrees and not acknowledge that there is some viable truth to what detractors sometimes observe and point out about Ingram. That being said. I like the kid. It doesn’t have to be some ridiculous debate every night though. Because for every game he had like last night, he’s had 4,5,6,10 on the opposite end of the spectrum and I didn’t see any of the ride or die fanboys brave enough to bump these types of threads then.
Posted on 1/14/22 at 12:03 am to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
Because for every game he had like last night, he’s had 4,5,6,10 on the opposite end of the spectrum and I didn’t see any of the ride or die fanboys brave enough to bump these types of threads then.
If you’re not a ride or die fanboy of BI, of all players, you’re not a ride or die Pels fan.
That being said, the detractors dismiss the coverage he sees on nearly every possession. He’s not going to win all of them and he’s still a clear top 30 player in the league. He’s still getting better.
The detractors hide far more often than not.
So frick them.
BI has replaced Jrue as The Pel we’ll always root for. He’s not a perfect player (yet) but when’s he on he’s incredible to watch.
The detractors haven’t seen yet, but they didn’t with Jrue for years.
This post was edited on 1/14/22 at 12:04 am
Posted on 1/14/22 at 1:11 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
I like BI for the record. I just think bumping the thread every time he hits a shot in the last 2 mins of a close game (and tonight wasn’t even close) is just as counterproductive as the original thread.
Posted on 1/14/22 at 4:55 am to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
What are his clutch numbers looking like now
Since Nov 24th:
47.4% overall
60% 3 pt
75% FT
LINK
Posted on 1/14/22 at 4:59 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
People forget that BI is just 24 years old and still getting better.
Posted on 1/14/22 at 6:02 am to GOP_Tiger
Yep, he's treated like he's 29 and has no more room for improvement. He still has 2-3 years before he hits his prime.
Posted on 1/14/22 at 6:15 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
If you’re not a ride or die fanboy of BI, of all players, you’re not a ride or die Pels fan.
Yeah, F that. I can support whoever I want however and whenever I want. The guy is a max "franchise" player. He is supposed to be a 1 and an alpha that leads the team.
I don't care how old he is or what limitations the team has, this is what comes with that contract. He fought for it and signed it. Now live up to it. I have the same expectations for him that Bucks fans have for Giannis and Warriors fans have for Curry. That is the level he should be striving to obtain.
I will give him his props when he does well. He is having a good month after a strong December. He is a borderline all star, which is great after an early injury and a pedestrian November. He needs to keep it up and hopefully take another step. Nobody is rooting for him to fail..
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