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Message
re: Aug 6th BI Deadline
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:36 am to Large Farva
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:36 am to Large Farva
quote:
What is the connection to BI with the Lauri extension?
Utah was trying to target PG, Mikail Bridges, etc to pair with Lauri. Those are all players who are similar to BI and who Utah wants to pair with Lauri.
Right now it looks BI's future is dependent on GSW/ Jazz. GSW want Lauri but don't want to pay for him.
If GSW can't get Lauri then they may pivot to BI. If Utah keeps Lauri then they may pivot to BI.
The issue would be that Utah doesn't "have" to trade for BI.
So essentially we would need Ainge to bid against GSW or give us what we want knowing he doesn't have to make the move.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 11:37 am
1
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:37 am to Dantheman504
quote:
If GSW can't get Lauri then they may pivot to BI.
Shams just stated warriors have no interest in BI. Looks like its basically Jazz now.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:39 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Yeah, I have seen that from the local talking heads,
Zach Lowe talked about this on a pod recently, IIRC
He 100% said the Jazz are buyers not sellers. I think he said Ainge used the word "big game hunting" in exit interviews.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
He 100% said the Jazz are buyers not sellers. I think he said Ainge used the word "big game hunting" in exit interviews.
I could be wrong but the fact they waited this long to trade BI- likely means they have a deal lined up depending if Lauri would resign. I think we’ll get some clarification on the BI issue really soon.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:43 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Shams just stated warriors have no interest in BI. Looks like its basically Jazz now.
This could also be positioning. If we cant reach an agreement with Utah then GSW can come in with shitty counter offers and hope we pull the trigger knowing that options are slim.
No way in hell GSW doesn't want BI at all. They were already fringe play in and swapped Klay for Buddy Hield. If they don't try to trade for BI then id be very surprised if Steph is there at the trade deadline.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 11:44 am
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:49 am to Dantheman504
quote:
This could also be positioning
You said the same thing with Detroit, Atlanta, and Sacramento. Its pretty clear that NBA execs don't share your idolatry of Brandon Ingram.
quote:
No way in hell GSW doesn't want BI at all
Kerr already had him last summer. And he ended up playing Josh Hart and Austin Reaves over him game after game. Golden State just let franchise legend Klay Thompson walk because they like Podziemski more.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:50 am to Dantheman504
quote:
No way in hell GSW doesn't want BI at all.
Kerr benched him when he played team USA. I’m not really sure how much BI fits them in how they run their offense. They may take BI for scraps but I don’t think they’re a real player in this.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:53 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
The team specifically asked him to shoot less 3s?
you know the answer to that.
and just an fyi one more time, BI is not a good 3 point shooter off the dribble. Never has been. BI taking pull up 3's is a stupid shot more often than not.
When you have the ball in your hands creating, you aren't going to get as many catch and shoot 3's opportunities.
You look at a guy like Devin Booker and he shoots 36% on pull up 3's, which is pretty good.
BI was at 34% this year, which was the best of his career, and that's still not good.
BI took more C&S threes than Booker this year, but Booker still took 6.1 threes overall compared to BI's 3.8
Jaylen Brown shot 30% on pull ups this year. 5.8 total attempts.
Pull up 3's:
BI 1.3 attempts
Brown 2.4
Booker 4.0
C&S 3's:
BI 2.5
Brown 3.1
Booker 2.1
BI being off the ball more should lead to more C&S 3's, which is what he should be taking, not pull up 3's.
BI taking 6 3's a game is a realistic outcome with Murray as the primary ball handler.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:00 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
BI being off the ball more should lead to more C&S 3's, which is what he should be taking, not pull up 3's. BI taking 6 3's a game is a realistic outcome with Murray as the primary ball handler.
Just because you handle the ball and bring the ball up court does not mean the only way to increase your volume of threes is by shooting pull up 3s.
Lets not pick and choose stats from guys like Devin Booker and Brown who both handle the ball and still find a way to shoot 3s.
This isn’t a BI has to shoot pull up 3s argument if he handles the ball. I’m not sure why you assume thats the only way he can shoot 3s if he is given that responsibility.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:02 pm to mhasen1
quote:
. Golden State just let franchise legend Klay Thompson walk because they like Podziemski more.
That isn't what happened at all.
Klay basically told them to go frick themselves for disrespecting him. He took less money somewhere else than what GSW was offering.
The Warriors owner said they wanted to get out of the tax this year. They can't do that and be a good team, as in championship contending team.
Wasting a year of Steph seems silly, but it sounds like that's what they are going to do.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
BI being off the ball more should lead to more C&S 3's
Point Zion should have led to more catch and shoot 3s for Ingram(like it did for every other player on the roster).
Instead he routinely caught the ball open behind the 3 point line, paused, took multiple dribbles to get to "his spot", and shot a contested 2. A point guard is not going to make Ingram a catch and shoot player. He has to commit to it. A point guard is not going to make him a cutter off ball. That's on him. If he had been doing those things, these threads wouldn't even exist.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:16 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Lets not pick and choose stats from guys like Devin Booker and Brown who both handle the ball and still find a way to shoot 3s.
I just showed you two guys who handle the ball a lot, one more than the other in Booker. Brown is more comparble to BI as the 2nd guy and more off ball since Tatum shoulders more of the responsibility.
There's two types of 3's, one where you're thrown the ball and you C&S it, and one where you create the shot yourself. 99% of people are better at the C&S one. I"m not picking and choosing stats. It's a simple stat comparing comparable players who have the responsibility of creating offense.
quote:
This isn’t a BI has to shoot pull up 3s argument if he handles the ball. I’m not sure why you assume thats the only way he can shoot 3s if he is given that responsibility.
I just showed you that they all took the same amount of C&S 3's basically.They are literally showing you the way to take more 3's is taking more pull up 3's.
Jamal Murray, probably the best pull up 3 point shooter in the league after Steph and Lillard, only took 2.5 C&S 3's, similarly like BI, Brown and Booker.
Why does he take more 3's than BI, b/c he takes 3.2 pull up threes instead of 1.3.
It's a really simple concept. You handle the ball a lot, you're going to take more pull up 3's and not have as many C&S opportunities.
Tyrese Maxey takes 4.9 pull up 3's a game, and he's not good at it either at 33%. He takes 3.1 C&S 3's a game.
They way BI played the last 2 years he would have needed to take more pull up 3's if he wanted more 3PA. He's more efficient from the mid range than he is on pull up 3's, but i understand that's hard for most people to acknowledge.
Simply shooting more 3's isn't the solution. Shooting more good 3's is. I'd rather he take 5 3's a game with 4 of them being C&S than taking 7 3's a game where only 3 of them are C&S.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:31 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You handle the ball a lot, you're going to take more pull up 3's and not have as many C&S opportunities.
First of all he handled the ball early in the season and then it shifted to point Zion- who generates a lot of catch and shoot 3s. Ingram’s catch/shoot 3s or volume of 3s did not increase when Zion started handling the ball. This is a tendency for BI to prefer to shoot middies over any open 3s. I think your argument is labeling this as point guard problem when I think its more of a BI preference problem.
quote:
Simply shooting more 3's isn't the solution. Shooting more good 3's is. I'd rather he take 5 3's a game with 4 of them being C&S than taking 7 3's a game where only 3 of them are C&S.
Agreed. But there are several times in games he passes open and catch shoot 3s to take a contested middie. Again this is strictly a BI preference issue. You’re just making this argument into a strictly pull up threes argument- which its not. Its what you’re believing to be the problem and relating that to not having a pount guard. When its been clearly shown even with a catch shoot generating player like Zion- BI does not increase his good three point attempts.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:33 pm to mhasen1
quote:
Point Zion should have led to more catch and shoot 3s for Ingram(like it did for every other player on the roster).
Point Zion didn't exist earlier in the season, and it happens more when BI isn't in the game, like at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters when BI isn't in the game.
quote:
Instead he routinely caught the ball open behind the 3 point line, paused, took multiple dribbles to get to "his spot", and shot a contested 2
I'd like one person to show me any type of stat that backs up this assanine comment everyone likes to say.
quote:
A point guard is not going to make Ingram a catch and shoot player.
except i showed you how much more efficient he is when he plays with Jose the last 2 years, the only PG on the team.
BI is an elite scorer off of off ball screens. top 15% in the league. Those opportunities increase with a real PG. He was a significantly more efficient scorer off screens than Murray, Booker, and Brown. BI at 1.2 Points per possession while the other 3 were at .89, .92, 1.1 respectively
quote:
A point guard is not going to make him a cutter off ball. That's on him.
Yes. It will.
It's hard to cut off the ball when the ball is always in your hands.
BI and Trey didn't even have enough cuts on the year to register in that stat. The only guys that did were JV and Zion, and then Herb/Naji/CJ/Jose had a very small amount per game, less than .5 possessions per game all season.
We didn't run an offense that was conducive to hitting cutters, and that's not something you see alot from the main ball handlers like you do big men. Booker and Maxey didn't have enough to register either, and Murray was at .6 per game, Brown at .9
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:35 pm to mhasen1
quote:
This could also be positioning
You said the same thing with Detroit, Atlanta, and Sacramento
It's clear Atlanta actually didn't want him. Sacrament/ Detroit ended up with Tobias Harris/ Derozen without giving up assets. That doesn't mean they weren't interested in BI. They just didn't want to pay the cost which is exactly what I just said about GSW.
BI is still GSW best chance of being competitive this year.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:48 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'd like one person to show me any type of stat that backs up this assanine comment everyone likes to say.
Hes done this in games several times. This isn’t asinine at all. Do they keep track of stats on players who pass up open threes and take a difficult middie? Not everything is stat based.
quote:
Point Zion didn't exist earlier in the season, and it happens more when BI isn't in the game, like at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters when BI isn't in the game.
Yet when he played with Zion together and Zion was point- did he increase his 3 pt volume? They were closing most 4th quarters together with Zion at point.
quote:
It's hard to cut off the ball when the ball is always in your hands.
Again bringing the ball up court or handling the ball doesn’t mean its always in your hands. You can play quickly but he tends not to do that. Its one of the issues, he tends to ball dominate whether he brings the ball up court or not. Hes not a quick decision maker- hes gotten better but still its not his best skillset.
To me BI isn’t this catch/shoot player which doesn’t mean hes a bad player- I just don’t believe thats who he is and this inclination that he will turn into this catch/shoot player with Dejounte all of a sudden- it just seems a bit unrealistic.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:53 pm to mhasen1
quote:
Point Zion should have led to more catch and shoot 3s for Ingram(like it did for every other player on the roster).
What if Ingram created many of those attempts for every other player on the roster? I know you would never acknowledge it rationally, but I just have to ask.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:54 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:55 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
First of all he handled the ball early in the season and then it shifted to point Zion- who generates a lot of catch and shoot 3s. Ingram’s catch/shoot 3s or volume of 3s did not increase when Zion started handling the ball.
You mean when BI got hurt?
quote:
This is a tendency for BI to prefer to shoot middies over any open 3s
Again, show me some stat of BI passing up open 3's.
quote:
I think your argument is labeling this as point guard problem when I think its more of a BI preference problem.
yet I've shown you that BI is better the last 2 years when he plays with Jose, the only PG on the team.
quote:
greed. But there are several times in games he passes open and catch shoot 3s to take a contested middie.
Again, stop saying this unless you can back it up.
quote:
You’re just making this argument into a strictly pull up threes argument- which its not.
I back up my arguments with stats, not some eye test everyone here likes to use.
I just showed you similar offensive players who shoot more 3's and only do so b/c they shoot more pull up 3's.
Would you like to compare BI to say OG, who takes 0.4 pull up 3's a game?
It's very clear that you're either an off ball player that takes a bunch of C&S 3's for the majority of your offense, like OG and Trey Murphy, or you're a creator and you're going to have to take more pull up 3's if you want to take a lot of threes.
BI's best comparison has always been prime Khris Middleton. Very similar players, and have similar #1 players on their team.
Middelton took 2.7 C&S 3's and 2.6 pull up 3's their championship season, for a grand total of 5.4 3PA. He lives in the mid range as well.
Don't you think he should have been taking more C&S 3's per game playing with Giannis? Can you see how being the primary perimeter ball handler limits your C&S 3PA, even when you play with Giannis/Zion?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:01 pm to Pels_Yaz
BI is staying in Nola.
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