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re: Guitar Center files for Bankruptcy
Posted on 11/28/20 at 9:40 am to Srbtiger06
Posted on 11/28/20 at 9:40 am to Srbtiger06
Similar story with a piano and a good friend who walked into a 'named' Birmingham shop wearing faded overalls.... Liberties. The shop lady said sir that's a Steinway and he quipped, "Yep, and I'm buying one today". He promptly walked out, drove across town, and bought the other one his daughter was interested in.
(She had narrowed it down to two.)
(She had narrowed it down to two.)
This post was edited on 11/28/20 at 6:30 pm
0
Posted on 11/29/20 at 9:10 pm to lazy
quote:
Kids don't want to work to play music when they can just create some digital beats.
They could still sell midi controllers and shite. They have bigger issues that are causing them to lose business.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 10:45 pm to dbeck
quote:
They could still sell midi controllers and shite
No only that but production and live sound. Which they do have, kids today with electronic still need studio monitors, mics, hardware, etc
Posted on 11/30/20 at 9:24 am to SEClint
Their problem is not changing trends with musicians - all the major guitar manufacturers are having banner years due to COVID. Fender has sold more guitars in 2020 than any other year in its history.
I run a pro-caliber guitar repair and upgrade shop, and still 75 percent of the people who enter my shop are what I'd call passionate hobbyists. Passionate hobbyists, whether they are into guitars, guns, their car, whatever, fund their hobby with disposable income. Thanks to COVID, we all have fewer disposable income outlets. So hobbyists are spending more of what they'd typically spend on vacations, on eating out and movies, on concerts and festivals, on their at-home hobbies and passions instead. Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio, Warmoth, all my suppliers are backordered for weeks, months, and my business remained hopping throughout 2020 due to the surge in fretted instrument popularity thanks to COVID and its stay-at-home repercussions.
Guitar Center's problems? One idiot's two cents off the top of my head ...
** Way too many retail locations and too many B&M associated expenses (employees and payrolls, insurances) in a world where online shopping is the trend in virtually every consumer market sector. Just one retail B&M in Louisiana I would argue is too many in today's world.
** Identical competition all lacking sole-source inventory - I can get Gibson/Fender/Martin/etc. from a sea of online vendors, and everyone has the same published prices thanks to MSRP and MAP policies, and the same perks, like free shipping and liberal return policies. Sweetwater stands out with bulletproof customer service. MF has "Stupid Deal of the Day" to draw you in to their web a few times a week. What's GC's niche? Pounding me with manufacturer buy-in e-blasts letting me know Monster cable yet again is 5 percent off this month?
** Absolutely saturated used markets via eBay, Reverb, Facebook Marketplace, offering the same product with substantial discounts (how much has a Telecaster or Les Paul, a Tama five-piece drum kit, or PA enclosures, really evolved over time?). No retailer can recover from economic strife in what's truly a buyer's market. How many times have you guys heard me say on this forum buy used because you can get the same stuff, you have 2x buying power there, or you'll spend 50 percent less versus retail?
The local store and its employees are very good to me, they send me a substantial amount of work. I hope they don't close the local store.
I run a pro-caliber guitar repair and upgrade shop, and still 75 percent of the people who enter my shop are what I'd call passionate hobbyists. Passionate hobbyists, whether they are into guitars, guns, their car, whatever, fund their hobby with disposable income. Thanks to COVID, we all have fewer disposable income outlets. So hobbyists are spending more of what they'd typically spend on vacations, on eating out and movies, on concerts and festivals, on their at-home hobbies and passions instead. Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio, Warmoth, all my suppliers are backordered for weeks, months, and my business remained hopping throughout 2020 due to the surge in fretted instrument popularity thanks to COVID and its stay-at-home repercussions.
Guitar Center's problems? One idiot's two cents off the top of my head ...
** Way too many retail locations and too many B&M associated expenses (employees and payrolls, insurances) in a world where online shopping is the trend in virtually every consumer market sector. Just one retail B&M in Louisiana I would argue is too many in today's world.
** Identical competition all lacking sole-source inventory - I can get Gibson/Fender/Martin/etc. from a sea of online vendors, and everyone has the same published prices thanks to MSRP and MAP policies, and the same perks, like free shipping and liberal return policies. Sweetwater stands out with bulletproof customer service. MF has "Stupid Deal of the Day" to draw you in to their web a few times a week. What's GC's niche? Pounding me with manufacturer buy-in e-blasts letting me know Monster cable yet again is 5 percent off this month?
** Absolutely saturated used markets via eBay, Reverb, Facebook Marketplace, offering the same product with substantial discounts (how much has a Telecaster or Les Paul, a Tama five-piece drum kit, or PA enclosures, really evolved over time?). No retailer can recover from economic strife in what's truly a buyer's market. How many times have you guys heard me say on this forum buy used because you can get the same stuff, you have 2x buying power there, or you'll spend 50 percent less versus retail?
The local store and its employees are very good to me, they send me a substantial amount of work. I hope they don't close the local store.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 10:55 am to TheFretShack
quote:
Their problem is not changing trends with musicians - all the major guitar manufacturers are having banner years due to COVID....
I think you analysis is pretty spot on. As I mentioned above there are 10 store within 30 miles of me. I do live in a densely populated city, but 10 is too many. I expect at least 5 to go away. Near my sister's house in VA, there is a small GC and a larger one about 10 miles away. I expect at least the smaller one to close.
GC can come out of the bankruptcy but they will likely have to strip away a lot of the excesses. As you say, with online retailers offering the same products, GC will have to adjust to that model. "Know Your Gear's" Phil McKnight recently said, "it used to be you tried something before you bought it. Now we buy stuff to try it out".
GC can also sell off a few divisions like Music & Arts, Musician's Friend, Music 123 etc.
Unless GC adjusts to the current marketplace, they will go the way of Tower Records (who were weakened when they refused to adjust to big box stores, then digital delivery came in and finished them off).
Posted on 11/30/20 at 11:55 am to TheFretShack
Most of the players I know that are out there working won't buy a guitar, bass, drums, whatever from Guitar Center. We will run in there to pick up something small like a cable or mic stand, but no instruments. Their selections have been too geared to beginners. That is fine and that may be a lot of what sells, but they just don't have any good higher end stuff. Sure, there are beginners going in there, but it still is good for them to be able to see and even play the higher end stuff so they have something to strive for. And, they could get more pros in there looking at stuff. There is a decent market for the higher end stuff if they will just carry it. Like was mentioned, Fender has there best sales ever this year. They had the Ultra models out of stock for a while. The market is there.
Now, this does vary from store to store. I went to a GC in Nashville and they had a bunch of good stuff. Not so much at all in Birmingham.
We are fortunate in Birmingham to have a large music store competitor in Bailey Brothers. They have stayed in business despite GC being around while most others like them in other cities have gone away. They have good stuff there. Not all their employees are that great, but you just have to know the right ones to talk to. And Mr. Bailey is a top-notch guy.
I bought a new Fender Ultra Jazz bass back in February. When I buy a new guitar, I want to play it. It is a bigger investment and I want to feel it before I buy it. GC didn't even have the Ultra models and I think they still don't. My lead guitar player did the same thing when he bought his Ultra Tele back in the spring. I will buy used stuff online if it is a good deal.
Another thing missing from GC is components. There are a lot of folks like me out there that like to custom build their instruments. Other than the Ultra, my other two basses are Frankensteins that I built from parts the way I wanted them. Most of the stuff I need for a parts bass is not at GC. The stuff that is may not be up to specs enough or just not enough selection.
Now, this does vary from store to store. I went to a GC in Nashville and they had a bunch of good stuff. Not so much at all in Birmingham.
We are fortunate in Birmingham to have a large music store competitor in Bailey Brothers. They have stayed in business despite GC being around while most others like them in other cities have gone away. They have good stuff there. Not all their employees are that great, but you just have to know the right ones to talk to. And Mr. Bailey is a top-notch guy.
I bought a new Fender Ultra Jazz bass back in February. When I buy a new guitar, I want to play it. It is a bigger investment and I want to feel it before I buy it. GC didn't even have the Ultra models and I think they still don't. My lead guitar player did the same thing when he bought his Ultra Tele back in the spring. I will buy used stuff online if it is a good deal.
Another thing missing from GC is components. There are a lot of folks like me out there that like to custom build their instruments. Other than the Ultra, my other two basses are Frankensteins that I built from parts the way I wanted them. Most of the stuff I need for a parts bass is not at GC. The stuff that is may not be up to specs enough or just not enough selection.
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 11:58 am
Posted on 11/30/20 at 12:04 pm to TheFretShack
Guitar Center’s niche was being a place where you could physically get your hands on and try out a far larger variety of equipment than most any other vender without having to buy it first.
I greatly prefer to try a guitar or pedal before I buy it so that I know what I’m getting. I’ll try dozens of pedals or guitars before I find the one. Guitar Center carries my exact model amp, so I can plug guitars into a copy of my exact amp at my exact settings and get an apples to apples comparison of my current gear. That way, I know exactly what pedal I want. I’ll pay a little bit more to walk out of the store with it that day and know that I won’t have to return it because it didn’t sound like what I thought it would based on youtube videos. With the lack of brick and mortar competitors in my area, there’s no place else where I can feasibly do that and no where with anywhere near the selection.
They were the music business equivalent to Best Buy. Then, much like Best Buy, they started making customers jump through hoops to try out items, and customers stopped buying from them. During Covid, Guitar Center had absurdly restrictive policies on how many people could enter their stores, how long they could be there, what they could touch, etc, to the point that they completely destroyed their own niche.
A couple other notes:
GC often has bad customer service and a crappy/slow repair shop, leading to most musicians wanting nothing to do with them.
GC used to carry a lot more genuine fender and gibson parts and components, much like a radio shack, which was great for diy upgrades and repairs, but they don’t anymore.
GC seems to mostly just push epiphone and squire these days without focusing on the big middle ground of guitars in the 600-1200 range.
GC is understandably skittish in letting shoppers test drive high end gibsons and other expensive guitars.
GC rarely has the symbols in stock that most of my drummer friends seem to covet, forcing them to almost always shop online.
I greatly prefer to try a guitar or pedal before I buy it so that I know what I’m getting. I’ll try dozens of pedals or guitars before I find the one. Guitar Center carries my exact model amp, so I can plug guitars into a copy of my exact amp at my exact settings and get an apples to apples comparison of my current gear. That way, I know exactly what pedal I want. I’ll pay a little bit more to walk out of the store with it that day and know that I won’t have to return it because it didn’t sound like what I thought it would based on youtube videos. With the lack of brick and mortar competitors in my area, there’s no place else where I can feasibly do that and no where with anywhere near the selection.
They were the music business equivalent to Best Buy. Then, much like Best Buy, they started making customers jump through hoops to try out items, and customers stopped buying from them. During Covid, Guitar Center had absurdly restrictive policies on how many people could enter their stores, how long they could be there, what they could touch, etc, to the point that they completely destroyed their own niche.
A couple other notes:
GC often has bad customer service and a crappy/slow repair shop, leading to most musicians wanting nothing to do with them.
GC used to carry a lot more genuine fender and gibson parts and components, much like a radio shack, which was great for diy upgrades and repairs, but they don’t anymore.
GC seems to mostly just push epiphone and squire these days without focusing on the big middle ground of guitars in the 600-1200 range.
GC is understandably skittish in letting shoppers test drive high end gibsons and other expensive guitars.
GC rarely has the symbols in stock that most of my drummer friends seem to covet, forcing them to almost always shop online.
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 11/30/20 at 12:22 pm to kingbob
The frustrating thing about GC is the employees. Some are ok, but most are either flaky, shady, or know less about stuff than I do. They should ask more questions. When I ask about a product, first ask me some questions to judge my knowledge so I don't have to listen to all the talking about stuff like I am a newb.
Another big one is their online vs. in-store pricing. It does not always match. I went in a year or so ago for a new Shure SM57 mic. I knew what I wanted and I knew their price from looking at it online. First I had to listen to the sales guy try to get me to buy the Sennheiser, and I told him a few times that I did not want that, I wanted the Shure and that the Shure is better anyway, I don't care what he uses in his band. Second, their price was higher by about $20. I showed them their online price and he said he was going to have to go ask the manager. I told him I could just order it right then from my phone and pay for it and request pick up from that store and he could give it to me or we could just do this and he could get what ever sales incentive he would get. Unreal.
Another big one is their online vs. in-store pricing. It does not always match. I went in a year or so ago for a new Shure SM57 mic. I knew what I wanted and I knew their price from looking at it online. First I had to listen to the sales guy try to get me to buy the Sennheiser, and I told him a few times that I did not want that, I wanted the Shure and that the Shure is better anyway, I don't care what he uses in his band. Second, their price was higher by about $20. I showed them their online price and he said he was going to have to go ask the manager. I told him I could just order it right then from my phone and pay for it and request pick up from that store and he could give it to me or we could just do this and he could get what ever sales incentive he would get. Unreal.
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 11/30/20 at 1:58 pm to wareaglepete
quote:
Most of the players I know that are out there working won't buy a guitar, bass, drums, whatever from Guitar Center.
I still to this day prefer to first look in pawn shops or 2nd hand places hoping to find discarded treasure. Unless its something I am specifically looking for, it reminds me of being younger and 90s youth excitement/passion I suppose.
That goes for pedals too, and hard to find amp heads.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 2:03 pm to wareaglepete
quote:
I went in a year or so ago for a new Shure SM57 mic
PSA
These are ideal for recording guitar to a lot of people. If you decide to buy one of these online, DO NOT use Ebay. I'm not sure if Amazon is still safe, they used to be.
The SHURE SM57 is a huge mic for Chinese counterfeit. They make them look almost identical now to the legit mics. But are only worth about $10 in actuality.
Real
Fake
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 11/30/20 at 2:04 pm to SEClint
I want to know where these pawn shops are that have good vintage guitars at competitive prices. All of the pawn shops I have ever visited had nothing but pure crap guitars at crazy prices no informed customer would ever pay.
I like looking for buried treasure at garage sales, estate sales, and vintage stores, but I have found pawn shops to be pretty useless.
I like looking for buried treasure at garage sales, estate sales, and vintage stores, but I have found pawn shops to be pretty useless.
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 11/30/20 at 2:25 pm to kingbob
quote:All over the country man, normally I travel a lot and always try to keep an eye out.
I want to know where these pawn shops are that have good vintage guitars at competitive prices.
I've had the most luck on the west coast with guitars specifically, heartland has some decent options.
quote:haggle lol worst they can say is no. Annoys me too when they'll have like a Gibson les paul studio marked way higher than they should..maybe banking on people seeing Gibson, the shape of that guitar and etc.
at crazy prices no informed customer would ever pay.
Some owners listen cause they don't know either, and some are assholes who don't want to make a sale that day.
This post was edited on 11/30/20 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 11/30/20 at 2:42 pm to SEClint
Not Guitar Center but I haven't been in BR trying to get any musical stuff in a really long time. Did Zeagler's Music (spelling?) close? I loved that place when I was a kid. I mowed lawns and saved for two summers and bought a red Gibson flying V that, like an idiot, I sold in college. 
loved that guitar, granted School of Rock had just come out and I think the movie really made me want it. 
loved that guitar, granted School of Rock had just come out and I think the movie really made me want it. Posted on 11/30/20 at 3:49 pm to BorrisMart
quote:
Zeagler's Music
Now thats a name..
Posted on 11/30/20 at 3:56 pm to BorrisMart
quote:
Did Zeagler's Music (spelling?) close?
Guitar Center bought them as well as Allison’s Music Exchange in Prarieville.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 4:47 pm to SEClint
yeh wishful thinking. I figured they were long gone. Shame.Posted on 11/30/20 at 6:49 pm to TheFretShack
quote:
** Absolutely saturated used markets via eBay, Reverb, Facebook Marketplace, offering the same product with substantial discounts (how much has a Telecaster or Les Paul, a Tama five-piece drum kit, or PA enclosures, really evolved over time?). No retailer can recover from economic strife in what's truly a buyer's market. How many times have you guys heard me say on this forum buy used because you can get the same stuff, you have 2x buying power there, or you'll spend 50 percent less versus retail?
I doubt I ever buy anything new again.
Haven't had a ton of luck with Craigslist but Facebook Marketplace has led me to all type of good deal, the best being a Taylor 210 for $400.
Always people down for trades too.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 8:14 pm to SidewalkTiger
Did the Gibson factory close in Nashville or was that just the store part?
Posted on 11/30/20 at 9:23 pm to BorrisMart
Pretty sure the Nashville Gibson plant is still open. I got a full plant tour a few years back by a maintenance manager that my coworker set up. I'm sure my coworker would have said something since his cousin works there.
Posted on 12/1/20 at 1:58 am to SEClint
quote:
The SHURE SM57 is a huge mic for Chinese counterfeit
Got my numbers mixed. I have a SM58. For vocals. 57 are great for recording instruments. The 58 is the industry standard. My band mates have fancy mics and mine is more responsive and just sounds way better.
And I’m sure they counterfeit 58s too. They fake everything.
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