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re: Why are modern filmakers so addicted to overly complex plots?
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:54 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:54 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Everybody wants to be Memento now.
Look at the Batmans.
Umm, is anyone going to point out the obvious here?
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
Because that’s the crap that the masses pay money for.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
A lot of good answers already, and I think, to a degree, they all speak to some sort of "modern condition" that ends up characterizing modern films. In that, directors are probably guilty of a couple of these problems, not necessarily all of them.
I think, taking on from Jimbeaux's breakdown of postmodernism, is the idea of "arrogance," in the there is a level of arrogance in post modernism's need to break everything down, break it apart. That that very exercise if more complicated than the thing itself (which is false), therefore, more complex.
We also think, as a culture, that we are "better" therefore, that we make better things than times that have come before., and although that's mostly true from a technological standpoint, I think it's a laughable assumption in terms of art. So these "complicated" stories that we tend to make are complicated for complication's sake. They actually don't deserve the pieces, and most of the additions are overblown, but because we are better, it is better.
We don't trust ourselves with simplicity anymore, and we look down on simplicity routinely.
I think, taking on from Jimbeaux's breakdown of postmodernism, is the idea of "arrogance," in the there is a level of arrogance in post modernism's need to break everything down, break it apart. That that very exercise if more complicated than the thing itself (which is false), therefore, more complex.
We also think, as a culture, that we are "better" therefore, that we make better things than times that have come before., and although that's mostly true from a technological standpoint, I think it's a laughable assumption in terms of art. So these "complicated" stories that we tend to make are complicated for complication's sake. They actually don't deserve the pieces, and most of the additions are overblown, but because we are better, it is better.
We don't trust ourselves with simplicity anymore, and we look down on simplicity routinely.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 2:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
BB2 is one of the most fun movies ever
Posted on 12/26/17 at 2:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
Here's my dilemma
I don't look forward to action films. I look forward to dramas. Except dramas aren't good for theaters, and action films are. So that is what I watch when I want to go to a theater.
We should talk about how comedies have gone the opposite way of what you described.
I don't look forward to action films. I look forward to dramas. Except dramas aren't good for theaters, and action films are. So that is what I watch when I want to go to a theater.
We should talk about how comedies have gone the opposite way of what you described.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:06 pm to Pectus
quote:
We should talk about how comedies have gone the opposite way of what you described.
in what way? they may be the worst in terms of change
look at classics from the 80s and 90s and most have simple stories and structures
look at comedies today. lots of crime/noir satires that require that complicated plot. hell even shitty movies like the new Ghostbusters has too much going on (especially when compared to the original).
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
Holy Grail is complicated.
Wes Anderson and Edgar Wright, current leaders in the best-rated comedies...complicated.
Groundhog Day is the epitome of complicated.
Wes Anderson and Edgar Wright, current leaders in the best-rated comedies...complicated.
Groundhog Day is the epitome of complicated.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:31 pm to Dire Wolf
This is why Fury Road got such rave reviews and is so rewatchable...as is its predecessors, especially The Road Warrior.
It's an extremely simple concept done it exceptional artistry and directing.
Just look at all of Spielberg's early stuff too... It's all so simple and easy to follow and purely entertaining.
It's an extremely simple concept done it exceptional artistry and directing.
Just look at all of Spielberg's early stuff too... It's all so simple and easy to follow and purely entertaining.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:46 pm to Jack Ruby
if you want another example of a movie that was very simple and got a lot of love, John Wick is a great one
i mean that movie had this whole rich, complicated world that could have allowed all sorts of side plots, but no, it kept it simple
i mean that movie had this whole rich, complicated world that could have allowed all sorts of side plots, but no, it kept it simple
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
Excellent examples on both.
Good thread, BTW.
Good thread, BTW.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
too many characters
too many subplots
too many shock-twists
too many climaxes
All a symptom of shitty screen writing. You can't substitute special effects and cheesy stereotypes for a solid foundation.
That's really what it boils down to. The best screen writers have left Film either because they are allowed more creative freedom on TV, HBO, Netflix, etc... Or because the studios refuse to take risks or buy their script and then bastardize it.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:55 pm to Pectus
i think the exodus of the top writers and talent to TV (where long form dramas allow lots of development) has led to a "race to the bottom" in movies. the concept of the character has been lost, and along with that, the audience has lost its most potent connection to the movie
when we don't give a shite about our hero, the only thing that can keep our attention is manufactured tension/conflict, and that requires a very...active plot. twists, turns, and inserted pressure is being used to replace our connection with the characters.
John Wick's motivations may be simple, but we fricking understood it. plus, the movie went all meta with this exchange:
the movie knows it's not making the best written drama ever. it's an action-revenge movie about a superior being about to wreck fricking shop on the bad guys. he doesn't need a love interest. he doesn't need to analyze moral clarity. he's been hurt and motherfrickers are going to pay (and we are about to enjoy to watch this happen)
when we don't give a shite about our hero, the only thing that can keep our attention is manufactured tension/conflict, and that requires a very...active plot. twists, turns, and inserted pressure is being used to replace our connection with the characters.
John Wick's motivations may be simple, but we fricking understood it. plus, the movie went all meta with this exchange:
quote:
Viggo Tarasov: I heard you struck my son.
Aurelio: Yes, sir, I did.
Viggo Tarasov: And may I ask why?
Aurelio: Yeah, well, because he stole John Wick's car, sir, and, uh, killed his dog.
Viggo Tarasov: [pause] Oh.
the movie knows it's not making the best written drama ever. it's an action-revenge movie about a superior being about to wreck fricking shop on the bad guys. he doesn't need a love interest. he doesn't need to analyze moral clarity. he's been hurt and motherfrickers are going to pay (and we are about to enjoy to watch this happen)
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
You are definitely right. Most writers have left for TV.
In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.
In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:25 pm to Pectus
quote:
In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.
there ain't no "may" about it, bruv
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
oh i have another amazing example: Ex Machina
very simple story. i mean stuff happens leading to a climax but there aren't all these subplots running around adding confusion
one of the best movies of the past 15 years
very simple story. i mean stuff happens leading to a climax but there aren't all these subplots running around adding confusion
one of the best movies of the past 15 years
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
Most great movies have simple plots
Narrative structure is something today’s writers and filmmakers don’t know
Narrative structure is something today’s writers and filmmakers don’t know
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:32 pm to funnystuff
quote:
Don’t forget to include due blame on the audience. Our attention spans are getting smaller and smaller. Large portions of the audience don’t want deep characters with multiple layers they have to peel back over 2 hours. So writers and directors replace an intense study of a few characters with a dozen different archetypes flying through plot twists simply for the sake of twisting the plot. It’s to try and hold onto our limited attentions for a little longer
This x100
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
oh i have another amazing example: Ex Machina very simple story. i mean stuff happens leading to a climax but there aren't all these subplots running around adding confusion one of the best movies of the past 15 years
Agree. And yet it only pulled in $25M domestically on a $15M budget. Blame the average movie goer
This post was edited on 12/26/17 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:40 pm to Pectus
quote:
In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.
“May be”?
We’ve been in it for years now
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