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re: Why are modern filmakers so addicted to overly complex plots?

Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:54 pm to
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

Everybody wants to be Memento now.

Look at the Batmans.


Umm, is anyone going to point out the obvious here?
Posted by Celery
Nuevo York
Member since Nov 2010
11683 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:56 pm to
Because that’s the crap that the masses pay money for.
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
38656 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:56 pm to
A lot of good answers already, and I think, to a degree, they all speak to some sort of "modern condition" that ends up characterizing modern films. In that, directors are probably guilty of a couple of these problems, not necessarily all of them.

I think, taking on from Jimbeaux's breakdown of postmodernism, is the idea of "arrogance," in the there is a level of arrogance in post modernism's need to break everything down, break it apart. That that very exercise if more complicated than the thing itself (which is false), therefore, more complex.

We also think, as a culture, that we are "better" therefore, that we make better things than times that have come before., and although that's mostly true from a technological standpoint, I think it's a laughable assumption in terms of art. So these "complicated" stories that we tend to make are complicated for complication's sake. They actually don't deserve the pieces, and most of the additions are overblown, but because we are better, it is better.

We don't trust ourselves with simplicity anymore, and we look down on simplicity routinely.
Posted by RLDSC FAN
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Member since Nov 2008
60063 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 2:19 pm to
quote:


BB2 is one of the most fun movies ever


One of my favorites, I've seen it so many times and it never gets old. Love when they frick with the kid that comes over to pick up his daughter
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 2:27 pm to
You want to?
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 2:57 pm to
Here's my dilemma

I don't look forward to action films. I look forward to dramas. Except dramas aren't good for theaters, and action films are. So that is what I watch when I want to go to a theater.


We should talk about how comedies have gone the opposite way of what you described.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

We should talk about how comedies have gone the opposite way of what you described.

in what way? they may be the worst in terms of change

look at classics from the 80s and 90s and most have simple stories and structures

look at comedies today. lots of crime/noir satires that require that complicated plot. hell even shitty movies like the new Ghostbusters has too much going on (especially when compared to the original).
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:15 pm to
Holy Grail is complicated.

Wes Anderson and Edgar Wright, current leaders in the best-rated comedies...complicated.

Groundhog Day is the epitome of complicated.
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
27322 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:31 pm to
This is why Fury Road got such rave reviews and is so rewatchable...as is its predecessors, especially The Road Warrior.

It's an extremely simple concept done it exceptional artistry and directing.

Just look at all of Spielberg's early stuff too... It's all so simple and easy to follow and purely entertaining.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:46 pm to
if you want another example of a movie that was very simple and got a lot of love, John Wick is a great one

i mean that movie had this whole rich, complicated world that could have allowed all sorts of side plots, but no, it kept it simple
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:46 pm to
Excellent examples on both.


Good thread, BTW.
Posted by Breesus
Unplug
Member since Jan 2010
69549 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

too many characters
too many subplots
too many shock-twists
too many climaxes


All a symptom of shitty screen writing. You can't substitute special effects and cheesy stereotypes for a solid foundation.

That's really what it boils down to. The best screen writers have left Film either because they are allowed more creative freedom on TV, HBO, Netflix, etc... Or because the studios refuse to take risks or buy their script and then bastardize it.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 3:55 pm to
i think the exodus of the top writers and talent to TV (where long form dramas allow lots of development) has led to a "race to the bottom" in movies. the concept of the character has been lost, and along with that, the audience has lost its most potent connection to the movie

when we don't give a shite about our hero, the only thing that can keep our attention is manufactured tension/conflict, and that requires a very...active plot. twists, turns, and inserted pressure is being used to replace our connection with the characters.

John Wick's motivations may be simple, but we fricking understood it. plus, the movie went all meta with this exchange:

quote:

Viggo Tarasov: I heard you struck my son.

Aurelio: Yes, sir, I did.

Viggo Tarasov: And may I ask why?

Aurelio: Yeah, well, because he stole John Wick's car, sir, and, uh, killed his dog.

Viggo Tarasov: [pause] Oh.


the movie knows it's not making the best written drama ever. it's an action-revenge movie about a superior being about to wreck fricking shop on the bad guys. he doesn't need a love interest. he doesn't need to analyze moral clarity. he's been hurt and motherfrickers are going to pay (and we are about to enjoy to watch this happen)
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:06 pm to
You are definitely right. Most writers have left for TV.

In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.

there ain't no "may" about it, bruv
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476328 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:26 pm to
oh i have another amazing example: Ex Machina

very simple story. i mean stuff happens leading to a climax but there aren't all these subplots running around adding confusion

one of the best movies of the past 15 years
Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 4:32 pm to
Most great movies have simple plots

Narrative structure is something today’s writers and filmmakers don’t know
Posted by jg8623
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
13533 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

Don’t forget to include due blame on the audience. Our attention spans are getting smaller and smaller. Large portions of the audience don’t want deep characters with multiple layers they have to peel back over 2 hours. So writers and directors replace an intense study of a few characters with a dozen different archetypes flying through plot twists simply for the sake of twisting the plot. It’s to try and hold onto our limited attentions for a little longer


This x100
Posted by jg8623
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
13533 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

oh i have another amazing example: Ex Machina very simple story. i mean stuff happens leading to a climax but there aren't all these subplots running around adding confusion one of the best movies of the past 15 years


Agree. And yet it only pulled in $25M domestically on a $15M budget. Blame the average movie goer
This post was edited on 12/26/17 at 5:35 pm
Posted by jg8623
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
13533 posts
Posted on 12/26/17 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

In fact we may be in the Golden Age of television and streaming.


“May be”?

We’ve been in it for years now
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