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What Writers Should Learn From Wonder Woman
Posted on 7/5/17 at 8:59 am
Posted on 7/5/17 at 8:59 am
YouTube Link
From the usually interesting Just Write Channel.
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category.
Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
From the usually interesting Just Write Channel.
quote:
So here's what writers can learn from Wonder Woman... and Spider-Man... and Doctor Strange... and... well, this video ended up talking about like every superhero movie out there, so maybe it should be "How I Want Superhero Movies To Be Written (Spoilers: Like Wonder Woman and/or Spider-Man 2)" but that's a little long isn't it?
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category.
Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
5
Posted on 7/5/17 at 9:37 am to Fewer Kilometers
Pretty spot on, IMO.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 9:47 am to Fewer Kilometers
Only watched part of it, but I see he gives pass for films like deadpool and leggo Batman for doing parody because it's what the movie is supposed to be, but then slams GotG for doing the same. I would argue that GotG is closer to the deadpool side of comic book characters than the Avengers, despite its success
ETA he kind of made this point later in the video. Carry on.
ETA he kind of made this point later in the video. Carry on.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 9:49 am
Posted on 7/5/17 at 9:57 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
slams GotG
Later on he does say that bathos sort of works better in the GotG movies because they're actually comedies.
I think that he doesn't give them a full pass because they're a part of the larger MCU.
ETA: Typing while you did your ETA.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 9:59 am
Posted on 7/5/17 at 10:17 am to FalseProphet
I agree with him that one of the reasons that Wonder Woman works is that there are no record-scratch moments where the movie is winking at the audience. Jenkins brought Lynda Carter in early and made her a part of the process without putting her in the actual movie (which would've brought things to a screeching halt). There's plenty of humor, but no meta jokes to remind you that it's just a movie.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 11:28 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category.
Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
So the only well-written superhero movie is Wonder Woman? That can't be right.
GotG2 is a terrific movie, made buckets of cash, and won critical praise. The plot was nearly non-existent which frankly, more superhero movies could benefit from. It was a fun hangout movie that relied on character rather than a propulsive plot. It's a superhero movie that has gotten us to care more about the characters and their relationships rather than the special effects.
I thought the writing in Wonder Womanwas fairly pedestrina: it's a paint by numbers origin story with a Batman framing device for no reason other than to remind you there's a larger cinematic universe. It even ends with a boss fight in which beams of light come from the sky, the ultimate superhero cliche at this point.
What makes WW work are the performances. Gal Gadot crushed it, and Chris Pine does excellent work as the lady in distress. The cast of misfits all had their own moment and were fleshed out with just a few moments of screentime. Ewan Bremner was amazing, in particular. And the settings on the isle was top notch. Really great world building.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 11:44 am to Baloo
quote:Not remotely what he says in the video. He doesn't even get to Wonder Woman until much later in the video.
So the only well-written superhero movie is Wonder Woman? That can't be right.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 11:51 am to Baloo
quote:
So the only well-written superhero movie is Wonder Woman? That can't be right.
You need to watch the video for context. They're not saying that Wonder Woman is the only well-written comic movie.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 12:11 pm to Baloo
quote:
So the only well-written superhero movie is Wonder Woman? That can't be right.
Especially since WW was dreadful.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 12:16 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Especially since WW was dreadful.
Again... you would need to watch the video above for context. It's about a style of writing used in movies, not which is better or worse. You'd probably agree with what the video says or at least consider how the movies are written a little more.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 12:42 pm to Fewer Kilometers
Wait you posted a video that does the following:
This is literally the only reason you posted it.
1) They don't talk about the other DCEU films, so he doesn't necessarily say it's the only one. Because, most likely, other DCEU films suffer the same thing.
2) He pretty much slams all of post-Whedon MCU - Strange, GotG, Civil War
3) He also doesn't actually show evidence of WW not using Bathos. Would have been nice to see his comparison. I'm pretty sure there were a couple of moments in WW where I laughed during "tense" moments. Pine had plenty of quippy lines.
4) He used two MCU characters who often use comedy as a shield - Rocket and Tony. Have we seen a moment of Bathos with Cap? No. Because IS a character that doesn't use that device. He is a direct comparison to WW. Black Panther? Witch? Nope.
5) Has he read a comic book? Quick shifts in tone and quippy dialog are normal devices in comic books. I'm reading Miller's Dardevil run right now, and the guy is constantly making clever remarks while bloodied and battling for his life.
6) MCU films tend to draw from this, warts and all. That's part of the charm. And was actually part of the charm of WW....it actually seemed to be inspired by its roots.
quote:
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category.
Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
This is literally the only reason you posted it. 1) They don't talk about the other DCEU films, so he doesn't necessarily say it's the only one. Because, most likely, other DCEU films suffer the same thing.
2) He pretty much slams all of post-Whedon MCU - Strange, GotG, Civil War
3) He also doesn't actually show evidence of WW not using Bathos. Would have been nice to see his comparison. I'm pretty sure there were a couple of moments in WW where I laughed during "tense" moments. Pine had plenty of quippy lines.
4) He used two MCU characters who often use comedy as a shield - Rocket and Tony. Have we seen a moment of Bathos with Cap? No. Because IS a character that doesn't use that device. He is a direct comparison to WW. Black Panther? Witch? Nope.
5) Has he read a comic book? Quick shifts in tone and quippy dialog are normal devices in comic books. I'm reading Miller's Dardevil run right now, and the guy is constantly making clever remarks while bloodied and battling for his life.
6) MCU films tend to draw from this, warts and all. That's part of the charm. And was actually part of the charm of WW....it actually seemed to be inspired by its roots.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 2:45 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Has he read a comic book? Quick shifts in tone and quippy dialog are normal devices in comic books. I'm reading Miller's Dardevil run right now, and the guy is constantly making clever remarks while bloodied and battling for his life.
6) MCU films tend to draw from this, warts and all. That's part of the charm. And was actually part of the charm of WW....it actually seemed to be inspired by its roots.
Exactly.
Anyone who has ever read a Marvel book knows this. The reason the movies are so popular is because how they capture this writing so spot on.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 2:54 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
This is literally the only reason you posted it.
Everyone else knows why I'd find it interesting. You're the only one to go full derp over it.
Posted on 7/5/17 at 4:25 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Everyone else knows why I'd find it interesting. You're the only one to go full derp over it.
Who's going derp? So why post it? I haven't seen you post on writing or narrative theory before...? I mean we could have an overall discussion of Bathos, and techniques outside of Marvel movies....lots of movies do that. So why this particular video about particularly Marvel films? Mix that with the guys approach and....for a guy talking about components of writing, he sure does not propose any "proof" or examples.
He shows all of these MCU examples directly, then just says "The reason I liked Wonder woman is because it doesn't do these things....." then doesn't proceed to show any proof or a similar-scoped theme or moment. Nothing. He just talks about Wonder Woman rather than showing. Odd choice when you are trying to build a case to "Learn from Wonder Woman." It just seems slanted.
ETA: You also posted this:
quote:
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category. Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
To make sure that no one could come in and disagree or offer a dissenting opinion. Anyone who does is "going derp." Not only that, you decide to go into the comment about why you posted it, rather than the bullet points below. Again, kind of proof that the only point of this is more WW praise, not a real discussion about the content.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 4:46 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
So why post it? I haven't seen you post on writing or narrative theory before...?
You've seen me post a thousand times about the DCEU. No one is surprised that I'd start a Wonder Woman thread except for you.
quote:That didn't happen. People gave dissenting opinions. I didn't make the derp remark until you thought that you were outing my having some nefarious intent.
You also posted this:
quote:
Trigger Warning: The Marvel Studios films fall in the "What not to do" category. Trigger Warning: The only DCEU film to fall in the the "What to do" category is Wonder Woman.
To make sure that no one could come in and disagree or offer a dissenting opinion. Anyone who does is "going derp."
The trigger warnings were half joke and half warning that the guy in the video wasn't a fan of Marvel Studios movies and didn't care enough about the DCEU movies to even mention them, with the exception of Wonder Woman. So, if you're a fan of either, you may not care to watch the video.
I'd put a disclaimer in my signature for you, stating that "I am a fan of DC Comics and any posts or replies on my part should be taken with that in mind", but you'd just masturbate over the added attention.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 4:55 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
You've seen me post a thousand times about the DCEU. No one is surprised that I'd start a Wonder Woman thread except for you.
So you posted a slanted, or at least questionable video, just because it's a "positive" take on something DCEU related? That's exactly what I'm saying, hence: "This is the only reason you posted it." You would have never posted a video who's summation was, "Here's what the DCU does wrong and Marvel does right."
quote:
That didn't happen. People gave dissenting opinions. I didn't make the derp remark until you thought that you were outing my having some nefarious intent.
The trigger warnings were half joke and half warning that the guy in the video wasn't a fan of Marvel Studios movies and didn't care enough about the DCEU movies to even mention them, with the exception of Wonder Woman. So, if you're a fan of either, you may not care to watch the video.
I'd put a disclaimer in my signature for you, stating that "I am a fan of DC Comics and any posts or replies on my part should be taken with that in mind", but you'd just masturbate over the added attention.
Because I made a quick half joke as well ("this is the only reason you posted it," was a joke dude, lighten up), and then dove right into bullet points as to why the video is questionable or off. But you've ignored all of that to focus on this.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 5:19 pm to Freauxzen
Looking forward to the next time that I start a thread about a DC character and you scream, "J'accuse!"
Posted on 7/5/17 at 5:47 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
So you posted a slanted, or at least questionable video, just because it's a "positive" take on something DCEU related? That's exactly what I'm saying, hence: "This is the only reason you posted it." You would have never posted a video who's summation was, "Here's what the DCU does wrong and Marvel does right."
quote:
That didn't happen. People gave dissenting opinions. I didn't make the derp remark until you thought that you were outing my having some nefarious intent.
The trigger warnings were half joke and half warning that the guy in the video wasn't a fan of Marvel Studios movies and didn't care enough about the DCEU movies to even mention them, with the exception of Wonder Woman. So, if you're a fan of either, you may not care to watch the video.
I'd put a disclaimer in my signature for you, stating that "I am a fan of DC Comics and any posts or replies on my part should be taken with that in mind", but you'd just masturbate over the added attention.
Because I made a quick half joke as well ("this is the only reason you posted it," was a joke dude, lighten up), and then dove right into bullet points as to why the video is questionable or off. But you've ignored all of that to focus on this.
This all could have been distilled down to "I'm being an a-hole so just lighten up" just like any 16 year old. Problem is you're always an a-hole who loves shitting in DC threads. Maybe he's just joking so why don't you lighten up?
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:48 pm to BigAppleTiger
quote:
This all could have been distilled down to "I'm being an a-hole so just lighten up" just like any 16 year old. Problem is you're always an a-hole who loves shitting in DC threads. Maybe he's just joking so why don't you lighten up?
So I'm an a-hole for my quick joke, but FK isn't for the Trigger warning?
And again, why the insults, totally unnecessary. Secondly, How am I shitting on the thread? I'm literally the only one who dove into the video and broke it down, while you guys are still talking about me. And there actually might be a discussion here because he does flicker things like Pirates of the Carribbean, Transfomers, etc. across the screen.
Seriously the Rocket point is dumb, mostly because through GotG we have MULTIPLE scenes of Rocket reacting with pathos to situations, where it does carry weight. Particularly after the bar/monster fighting scene where he threatens to "kill every single one of you" before their job was over. No joke, no bathos.
Rocket is saying they are jackasses because the odds were MASSIVELY stacked against them, and they were relying on the only help they could get outside of the Ravagers to Starlord's "dick" message getting through to the NovaCorps. He didn't want to do the plan (11% of a plan) because it was near certain death. Thus, they were jackasses. That scene wasn't actually supposed to carry some kind of emotional weight. It was supposed to represent a ragtag group of superheroes knowingly getting in over their heads just to see if the craziness could work. And they are giving up money, their initial drive throughout the film, to save the universe. Think about it from a character like Rocket's perspective, a character who constantly hides his real feelings. That's what the scene is about.
I watched a couple of the other videos, and he does have good ideas, but he's off on this.
This post was edited on 7/5/17 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 7/5/17 at 6:52 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Looking forward to the next time that I start a thread about a DC character and you scream, "J'accuse!"
So you posted a video that you didn't want to talk about?
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