re: What did Darth Vader actually accomplish?

I know they were bad shots in the OT, but to me it seemed like the stormtroopers in Rogue One were particularly bad. They had a clear shot at Jyn so many times.

Meanwhile, the rebel squadron could launch bombs that only hit Galen and no one else.

I've compared the empire followers in recent years to being a Saints fan.

At the center you have an amazing leader..surrounded by incompetence. There is no way you could be a Saints fan and not be a full on sith with all the confusion, frustration, anger and hate.

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I'm not saying he was a galactic failure - but I'm just wondering what he actual legacy was.

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Unlike some, I don't give Darth Vader too much credit for offing the Emperor. Sure, he did it. But Luke had to work and suffer like hell to get him to take action. And it's not like Darth Vader stood up to him and dueled him or anything... he just took him by surprise and hurled him. Woo. Let's give the guy a parade.

Story-wise it's the Emperor who did the real, meaningful acts of evil. Darth Vader was his tool.

Darth Vader doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, legacy-wise, according to what's ON SCREEN (what matters most) in the movies.

His real legacy is that he's the figure that nerds worldwide project their anger through. Vader-worship is almost always grounded in personalities that lack power, wish they had it, and think they would get it if they had a laser sword and space sorcery.

And don't get me wrong. I love Star Wars. I even like Darth Vader. But I don't get how some people are SO INTO him.

Made you watch 7 movies.

In addition to everything else already said he was also a highly decorated war hero during the clone wars

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Well, sure, if you decidedly don't give him credit for the things he did

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Then indulge me an exercise. If there was no Darth Vader, could you have still told the story of Rogue One and Episodes IV through VI?

This is not "what if Darth Vader never existed?" This is, how is he necessary to the tale?

The only reason he is there is to serve Luke's character journey. And Luke could/would have been heroic regardless of whether his father actually died at the end of Episode III or not.

Vader's not even needed in Rogue One.

In Star Wars, there is only one action where he is absolutely necessary. He kills Obi Wan, who was okay with dying anyhow, since he knew he could guide Luke better from beyond. Luke was a hero to audiences at the end of IV, without any inkling that Vader was his father.

In the Empire Strikes Back, the Emperor could have invaded Hoth, and laid the trap at Bespin. It didn't HAVE to be Vader. Luke could have fought the Emperor himself and lost, and there would be basically no change to the war between the Empire and the Rebellion, and no change in Luke ascending to becoming a Jedi. The story still would have been good without him. It's better with the Vader/Luke interplay, but not necessary.

In Return of the Jedi, Vader does pretty much nothing that Luke couldn't have been written to do himself. If Luke trained with Yoda to be powerful enough to overthrow the Emperor, and does... it still would have been a good story. It's better with Vader, but not necessary.

Vader enhances the character of Luke, but Luke could still have completed his character progression without him, by becoming a Jedi, like his father. Even if we knew nothing of his father, it still would have been a good story. It's a better story for Luke with Vader in the movie, but his character is not necessary in the way that Luke, Leia, Solo, the Emperor, or even Obi Wan is.

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Then indulge me an exercise. If there was no Darth Vader, could you have still told the story of Rogue One and Episodes IV through VI?

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Yes, but the story was never meant to be without the Vader Character. He IS the central character in all of the Skywalker saga movies through Return of the Jedi. A New Hope might have been the most likely part of the story to be commercially successful, which gave us the original trilogy starting there with the fourth installment and seemingly telling Luke's story, but when you look at the six movies as a whole, it's pretty clear that Anakin/Vader is whose story we're being told.

Also, if Vader wasn't there, that's a couple fewer action figures that can be sold.

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ader's not even needed in Rogue One.

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Well, that's probably why he isn't really in Rogue One.

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In Star Wars, there is only one action where he is absolutely necessary. He kills Obi Wan, who was okay with dying anyhow, since he knew he could guide Luke better from beyond. Luke was a hero to audiences at the end of IV, without any inkling that Vader was his father.

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Besides hunting down Leia originally, planting the tracking device on the ship to find out the rebel base in on Yavin, or thwarting the rebel runs on the death star until Han chipped in? This movie is also not largely about Vader, it is about Luke.

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In the Empire Strikes Back, the Emperor could have invaded Hoth, and laid the trap at Bespin. It didn't HAVE to be Vader. Luke could have fought the Emperor himself and lost, and there would be basically no change to the war between the Empire and the Rebellion, and no change in Luke ascending to becoming a Jedi. The story still would have been good without him. It's better with the Vader/Luke interplay, but not necessary.

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Again, sure, if you take out all the things he actually did or just arbitrarily give them to another character, he is irrelevant.

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In Return of the Jedi, Vader does pretty much nothing that Luke couldn't have been written to do himself. If Luke trained with Yoda to be powerful enough to overthrow the Emperor, and does... it still would have been a good story. It's better with Vader, but not necessary.

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Again, this is just silly logic. You are basically saying that if I remove a character and rewrite the story so that he is not needed, he won't be needed. No shite . Luke is basically worthless in this movie as well. If he wasn't there, the shield generator still gets taken down and the Death Star still gets blown up.

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If he wasn't there, the shield generator still gets taken down and the Death Star still gets blown up.

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Good point. Another illustration why Return of the Jedi sucks. Thanks for this.