re: True Detective S4 Season Long Thread

I don’t think it’s misogynistic to examine why the characters just aren’t very well written to this point, in contrast with similar character types from S1. Doesn’t mean that they won’t be better fleshed out as time goes on but after 2 episodes, they’re not the reason I’m watching.

Navarro’s character has at least been given backstory (combat vet, indigenous person, caretaker of a mentally ill sibling) but not a ton of motivation. Is she obsessed with Annie K’s murder because she identifies with her? Because it was ignored or covered up? And is she even really that obsessed at all (like Rust was) or is she just aggravated by the conditions of the town she’s in?

Danvers, as well detailed in the previous post, just doesn’t have a good ‘why’ yet, nor does she have many redeeming qualities. For whatever the reason (poor writing or an intentional slow burn) the story hasn’t revealed that yet. Can only get by on assumption for so long

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To fair, is there much else to do in somewhere like Ennis, Alaska than to get drunk, high, or screw? I do think the location plays into this some.

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But that begs the question why set the story here to begin with? I’m not saying there isn’t a reason or that the reason won’t be revealed soon but I’m genuinely wondering why here and why not in, say, New Orleans or the Ozarks or the Smoky Mountains? As an audience member, I have to assume there is more to choosing this setting than just “wouldn’t it be crazy if…” and that it relates back to the detectives involved somehow. And for such a godforsaken place to be the setting, I really need to know why anyone would choose to stick around there. Navarro I can understand if that’s her indigenous home. But what’s Danvers reason for staying? Seems like she has more reason to leave than stay so far.

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I don’t think it’s misogynistic to examine why the characters just aren’t very well written to this point, in contrast with similar character types from S1. Doesn’t mean that they won’t be better fleshed out as time goes on but after 2 episodes, they’re not the reason I’m watching.

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There's was nothing wrong with North's post. It's their opinion and I thought it was articulated well. The other poster is just trying to stir shite at this point.

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Navarro’s character has at least been given backstory (combat vet, indigenous person, caretaker of a mentally ill sibling) but not a ton of motivation. Is she obsessed with Annie K’s murder because she identifies with her? Because it was ignored or covered up? And is she even really that obsessed at all (like Rust was) or is she just aggravated by the conditions of the town she’s in?

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My assumption based on both episodes and the dialogue is that she's obsessed because she was never able to solve it when her and Danvers worked it. And that she identifies with her as another Native woman from the area. I don't think it's a stretch to think it didn't get fully investigated for a host of reasons, including lack of resources but also Navarro apparently going off the deep end over it. And potential outside influences.

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Danvers, as well detailed in the previous post, just doesn’t have a good ‘why’ yet, nor does she have many redeeming qualities. For whatever the reason (poor writing or an intentional slow burn) the story hasn’t revealed that yet. Can only get by on assumption for so long

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That's fair. I do think we saw at least at some point she was happy in the flashback while her ex's daughter was talking. And we found out why she has such an aversion to that Beatles' song (was playing in her flashback with the kid associated with the one-eyed polar bear stuffed animal). Like you said though, just nothing really redeemable there at this point. She's a bitch to everyone.

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It was a memorial of sorts for Annie.

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It kinda had a Carcosa feel to me. That could have been where they, uh...yeah

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But that begs the question why set the story here to begin with? I’m not saying there isn’t a reason or that the reason won’t be revealed soon but I’m genuinely wondering why here and why not in, say, New Orleans or the Ozarks or the Smoky Mountains? As an audience member, I have to assume there is more to choosing this setting than just “wouldn’t it be crazy if…” and that it relates back to the detectives involved somehow. And for such a godforsaken place to be the setting, I really need to know why anyone would choose to stick around there. Navarro I can understand if that’s her indigenous home. But what’s Danvers reason for staying? Seems like she has more reason to leave than stay so far.

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the setting is one of the strongest points of the show for me. all of the questions you've asked are exactly WHY it's such a compelling location to me, for the same reason you mentioned - there has to be more to than "wouldnt it be crazy if". there are so many cool ways you could exploit such a unique and atmospheric location to develop characters that they JUST ARENT DOING. Season 1 WAS south Louisiana. even if you've never physically been down there, you somehow just knew that that show captured the essence and atmosphere perfectly, and, most notably and importantly, the characters were developed to fit in and be part of that world. they were as key to developing the setting as the setting was to developing the characters.

i've been pretty far north in Alaska. not as far as the supposed setting here, but pretty far. it's definitely a "whole vibe" as the kids say. and so far, honestly, the show captures the weird Alaska atmosphere pretty well i think (i havent been there in the winter, and i havent lived there, so i'm definitely not an authority). i 100% dig the mood of this season. but i dont feel like Navarro and Danvers belong in this world so much as they just happen to be there doing things. (that said, some of the more minor characters and bit roles do feel more authentic to me, whatever that means).

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it literally showed a flashback of Navarro standing there with a fellow Marine (pretty sure he had on Marine lance corporal rank, which is unique...is she a Marine? why dont we know the answer to this after two episodes?) whose head was blown in half. HOLY frick TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT, THAT IS SUPER INTERESTING...then...not another word about it.

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What’s frustrating about that scene to me is that her service (“my last tour,” implying she wasn’t just one and done) really just serves as the vehicle to deliver a nihilistic philosophy about believing in God but still feeling like we’re all alone (“God too”). What was the significance of the marine whispering “listen” to her and why is that supposed to prove to her God is real? It’s a really interesting sequence and they’re clearly trying to show something but it seems to raise more questions than provide clarity regarding who Navarro is.

The supernatural part wouldn't bother me, largely because I could see it tied into Native expressions of spirituality (like Hulu's Reservation Dogs and so on).

A side note, I couldn't help but wonder why none of these motherfrickers lock their doors (the ice rink included). Apparently, folks far enough North to deal with polar bears don't lock their doors in order to have a quick escape in case they come face to face with one. And to prevent people from getting locked out in those kind of elements.

CBC article on Manitoba and others dealing with polar bears in town

lol interesting. insert "the more you know" gif.

love the subheading on that article - "A Russian town invaded by polar bears could learn a few lessons from Churchill, Man."

In Soviet Russia polar bear invade YOUR habitat!

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Im with you here, I think it’s a big reason why I’m still invested in watching the show; the potential is there. But it also puts a lot of pressure on episode 3 in only a 6 episode run to really answer “why are we here and what are we trying to accomplish”.

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contrast with season 1 again (i am obviously enjoying this shtick) - by the end of episode 2, we knew these things and/or these things had happened:

1. we've learned of the green eared spaghetti monster
2. Rust has arrived drunk at dinner at Marty's with some strong hints at a complicated relationship with "normal family life"
3. the frenemy nature relationship of Rust and Marty is very well established
4. we've learned that this story is spread out over almost two decades and that in the current storyline, Rust and Marty havent spoken in almost ten years - we want to know more!
5. we know whatever is happening in the current timeline is tied to whatever happened in the first timeline, even though we also know that the first timeline mystery was supposedly solved - we want to know more!!
6. we are dialed in super tight on the tumultuous family dynamics in the Hart family, Marty is cheating on Maggie, and while we think Marty is an a-hole, Maggie is certainly no Mary Sue herself, and that this is the definition of a dysfunctional family. we also know that Marty and Maggie are now divorced in the current timeline - we want to know why and how and MORE!!!
7. we know about Rust's daughter's death and that it led to the end of his first marriage
8. we know all about Rust's undercover career, his drug use, his hallucinations, his stay in the psych ward, and what ultimately led him to being a detective in Louisiana
9. we're already learning the dual nature of Marty, as he shows obvious compassion for the young prostitute at the Ranch

all of this by the end of the SECOND EPISODE.

what do we know about Danvers by comparison? virtually nothing. she sleeps with her boss and she has a failed marriage or two. her boss somehow screwed her over by giving her the job in Ennis (doesnt explain how or why this was bad) and she is now screwing him over by keeping the case in Ennis instead of Anchorage (doesnt explain how or why this is bad).

we know a little more about Navarro, but not THAT much. mostly just exposition. and exposition is ok, that's how we learned a lot about Rust, but it was INTERESTING learning about Rust because we already were invested in his character. i dont care about exposition about Navarro because i dont care about HER.

i'm really getting self indulgent now in my ranting, so i better tone it down. i'm sounding like Mr Plinkett going off the rails.

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Louisiana was its own character in S1. It was muggy, seedy, but most of all it just felt old, like the people living there had no idea what was buried by time beneath their feet. It had that “beauty in entropy” aesthetic nailed that really played into the cult ideology of all things repeating, ritual process, ancient knowledge.

I think there’s a parallel to be drawn with Ennis, Alaska but I’m waiting/counting on the storytellers to do that work for me.

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Billy Shakespeare couldnt have said it better himself

I did listen to a post show recap pod and they said the guy that woke up was Ember, the Director of the lab and hes in intensive care and expected to live.

Not sure if that was discussed. I figured he just died.