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re: tOfficial Better Call Saul S06E07 “Plan and Execution” Thread

Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:14 am to
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49109 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:14 am to
Wonder if Lalo will drink from the bottle Howard brought in while having his chat.

Feel like it may be an all nighter for them too.

Probably sell or move out the apartment asap too.
Posted by RonLaFlamme
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2016
1858 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 5:07 am to
quote:

I think the last couple episodes did a good job of showing another dimension to Howard, suggesting he wasn't that different from any other stereotypical trial lawyer.


Howard and Saul are both con men - Saul just went hard on the sleaze factor. Howard went hard on dressing himself up and having excellent manners.

Howard’s character has definitely evolved and made us question why are they doing all this to him, a seemingly kind person. And Patrick Fabian should definitely win an award for his work.

I know I’m in the minority but I think he’s just the opposite version of Saul - a shyster with manners and good looks.

He treats people well when he has power, control, and feels superior to them. Remember how he lost it when Kim big dicked him and tried to give back the 15k? That’s one of the few times we’ve seen him lose his cool.
Posted by Tortious
ATX
Member since Nov 2010
5505 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 6:32 am to
quote:

I’m in the minority but I think he’s just the opposite version of Saul - a shyster with manners and good looks


I'm with you, but don't see them as opposites. I always viewed them both as shades of one another and somebody Jimmy wanted to be. Howard was just cut from a finer cloth so he doesn't need the sleeze factor that is all unsophisticated Saul knows how to do. He could never pull off the air Howard does. I think you see it in the tacky clothes Jimmy/Saul wears and the effort he puts, with Kim, into looking ultra sophisticated they just don't know how too. Like you say, his "con" is the sophistication but no less sleezy. shite I know a lot of sleezeball lawyers who act just like Howard.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 6:40 am
Posted by RonLaFlamme
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2016
1858 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 7:07 am to
We're on the same page. Opposites was the wrong way to describe it. Two sides of the same coin might be more appropriate.

And yeah, Jimmy tried being Howard in the early days.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 7:08 am
Posted by rebelrouser
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
12158 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 10:08 am to
quote:

Howard and Saul are both con men - Saul just went hard on the sleaze factor. Howard went hard on dressing himself up and having excellent manners.


How? What did Howard ever do that could be considered fraudulent or even dishonest? #teamhoward
Posted by Fgiord
America
Member since Nov 2006
4709 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 10:14 am to
One could argue Howard & HHM wanting to get a much money as possible out of the Sandpiper case, and in turn stretching the case out for years, while knowing a number of their clients would not live long enough to receive the payout, is dishonest and con man adjacent.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 10:15 am
Posted by Dave Worth
Metairie
Member since Dec 2003
1897 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 10:31 am to
quote:

One could argue Howard & HHM wanting to get a much money as possible out of the Sandpiper case, and in turn stretching the case out for years, while knowing a number of their clients would not live long enough to receive the payout, is dishonest and con man adjacent.


Don't the lawyers have an obligation to the residents that won't die in the next year or two (that was a minimum timeframe Howard gave to the old lady before the meeting)? I'm far from pro-lawyer but I would think the priority of the law firm(s) suing is to maximize the settlement for the entire group unless directed to do otherwise.

I would assume that at some point the lawyers and clients have had open discussions about the time frames and pros and cons for settling versus dragging it out. I know there's been comments about Howard's debt but there are other firms involved as well. Cliff Main strikes me as someone who would be very fair and honest from what we've seen.

My biggest issue is how to feel about Jimmy and Kim. I like them because of all the show history. But it's very hard to root for them at this point. There is no legitimate reason for them to do what they've done other than for kicks. They would get a lot more money waiting a couple of years. They've got a big chunk of cartel money so they're not hurting. Jimmy has a line down the block each day of new clients so money doesn't look to be a problem soon. They literally destroyed (purposefully his reputation and career and ultimately his life) someone that the worst thing you can say is he's a "typical" lawyer, and all for shits and giggles.

Posted by RonLaFlamme
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2016
1858 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 10:36 am to
I'll throw out another example of how he only treats people well who are no threat to him.

When Kim landed Mesa Verde, by all accounts, she should've been rewarded (or at least brought back out of doc review), but Howard loved the power he had over her. Initially, he punished her for something she didn't do (Jimmy running a commercial) and then when she tried to dig herself out by landing a major new client, instead of putting her on partner track, he left her in the basement.

He only let her out of doc review because Kevin and Paige wanted to work with her and at that point, Chuck (ok Jimmy had a hand in it too) had poisoned the relationship with Mesa Verde. It was the only way to keep them with HHM.

When she decides to leave the firm (leaving Mesa Verde behind) she is no longer a threat to him - and he treats her graciously (carries the student debt).

When she returns the money, he goes ballistic, because she's saying thanks, but I don't need you.
Posted by Crow Pie
Neuro ICU - Tulane Med Center
Member since Feb 2010
26394 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 10:45 am to
Does anyone know why Sam Holo has not been in this thread to gloat that he knew Lalo would kill Howard with 1 silent shot to the cranium after a faint shadow was cast on a boysenberry blue wall in Episode 1 of Season 2?
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 10:48 am
Posted by LSUbacchus
Portland, Oregon
Member since Jul 2012
1675 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 11:52 am to
It’s not about the money. It’s because of the thrills and they enjoy it. Ala what Walter finally admitted to skylar why he did it. Wasn’t for the money…it was because he enjoyed it. And he was good at it. He used the family front as an excuse on why he cooked meth. And in both cases collateral damage was had.
Posted by bah humbug
Member since Nov 2011
1926 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

Does anyone know why Sam Holo has not been in this thread to gloat that he knew Lalo would kill Howard with 1 silent shot to the cranium after a faint shadow was cast on a boysenberry blue wall in Episode 1 of Season 2?


Nice. Every hue has a meaning.

Can’t wait to find out what Lalo’s plate number on that Subaru Outback foretells.
Posted by hogcard1964
Alabama
Member since Jan 2017
14205 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:12 pm to
Lalo beat his folder chair to pieces against the sewer wall. ...this obviously foretells his demise via choking to death on his own vomit in episode 8.
Posted by rebelrouser
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
12158 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

One could argue Howard & HHM wanting to get a much money as possible out of the Sandpiper case, and in turn stretching the case out for years, while knowing a number of their clients would not live long enough to receive the payout, is dishonest and con man adjacent.


The decision to settle or not to settle belongs to the client/class. While some of the class wants to settle now, they would have to agree as a group and then the case would settle. Funny that people think Howard is the bad guy and not the lawyer for Sand Piper who is a true piece of shite (Rich Schweikart) or did you forget about the part where he withdraws his offer to settle? At that point, the right decision is to go to court but Cliff won't agree to that because he has been conned by Saul and Kim who are also pieces of shite ultimately hurting these retired folks because they want a cheap thrill.
Posted by rebelrouser
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
12158 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

landing a major new client, instead of putting her on partner track, he left her in the basement.


Obviously, she was on the bottom rung of lawyers in a large firm. You are suggesting that she should have been leapfrogged ahead of other lawyers, which would then create a lot of problems. The immorality of Kim is staring you in the face yet you want to dig for criticism of Howard because Kim is the "hero."
Posted by PowerTool
The dark side of the road
Member since Dec 2009
22410 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:38 pm to
Did you miss the part where Howard was the one pressured and persuaded the old people into waiting, when they wanted to settle because they might not live long enough to see a larger settlement?

Did you miss the part where he told jimmy & Kimmy that he was in debt, establishing his motive for holding out for a bigger settlement?

Did you miss the part where Howard convinced the class representative to use a wheelchair for the meeting, even after she said she didn't need one? That was pure theatrics, just like Jimmy/Saul would use.
Posted by RonLaFlamme
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2016
1858 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:44 pm to
Simply pointing out what I think of Howard. Nothing else.
Posted by RealityTiger
Geismar, LA
Member since Jan 2010
20509 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

No one hates you because your theories are stupid. Everyone hates you because you’re just a dickhead. You aren’t fun to discuss the show with at all.


It's like he has all the answers and everybody else is so beneath him because he's the fricking expert at the show.
Posted by Cow Drogo
Member since Jul 2016
7647 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 1:06 pm to
What do y’all think lalo wants with Jimmy and Kim?
Obviously he can press the question of the desert again, but what does that gain him?
Posted by RonLaFlamme
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2016
1858 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 1:12 pm to
Jimmy can connect Mike to the shootout in the desert, which connects Gus to it. Gets Lalo closer to the truth. Next question is - if Gus/Mike weren’t the ones stealing the $ - then who was.


He probably thinks it was Gus trying to steal the $ and will be surprised it wasn’t. A very limited # of people could’ve known about the handoff. Where does that lead him?
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 1:15 pm
Posted by Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
17318 posts
Posted on 5/26/22 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

Obviously he can press the question of the desert again, but what does that gain him?



I guess he can start unraveling some threads, if he asked the right questions.

Mike did tell Saul (IIRC) that Lalo would be killed before Lalo was attacked. That's a biggie.

For that matter, does Lalo even know Mike's full name? Saul does.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 1:25 pm
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