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re: The Last of Us | S1, Ep 9 Season Finale | NO GAME SPOILERS Thread
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:27 pm to WicKed WayZ
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:27 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Fireflies by not offering her a choice or telling her she could possibly die for nothing
But you don't know that. You keep telling the other poster about black and white but you are doing the same thing. You do not know with a shadow of a doubt they did not give her a choice.
2
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:29 pm to LSUPERMAN
excellent episode.
Kill everybody to save one person, or kill one person to save everybody.
Classic ethical dilemma...the trolley problem
Absolute vs relative.
Kill everybody to save one person, or kill one person to save everybody.
Classic ethical dilemma...the trolley problem
Absolute vs relative.
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:34 pm to gaetti15
quote:
or kill one person to save everybody.
Eh, the world is gone already. Not much to save.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:40 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
The guy held up a scalpel. He didn’t kill the nurses. Joel was eliminating any and all threats.
This. The surgeon held up the scalpel and said he wasn’t gonna let Ellie go. Joel shot him before he could hurt Ellie.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:41 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Eh, the world is gone already. Not much to save.
of course "everybody" is more lax in this situation
really one could say the creation of a potential vaccine could be the ultimate flip of the switch for power control in the post-apocalyptic society.
If the Fireflies would somehow being able to produce a vaccine, they could control who gets to be "saved" in the society.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:46 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
And when Joel says, “Cordyceps grows inside the brain”, again that could mean he’s realizing it’s brain surgery, which is dangerous. You have to make some logic jumps to say they were removing her brain and she was 100% gonna be dead. Maybe we can get a doctor in here to say if what they talked about meant taking out her entire brain.
Even if it’s not “taking her entire brain out” what kind of brain surgery do you think was going to go on at a dilapidated hospital? She was as good as dead once they open up her head.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:48 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Joel’s decision was definitely selfish BUT so was the Fireflies by not offering her a choice or telling her she could possibly die for nothing
But again, you can't say this and keep saying we don't know that to the other points. Because we have no idea if they gave her a choice. I doubt they did, but I also personally think Ellie was probably willing to go forward with it either way.
Also, dont bring that "doctor was a threat because he held up a scalpel" weak stuff in here
That dude was not a threat and you know it. He wasn't in attack mode, he was about to start a surgery and was in wait wtf is going on mode. For once though it's a debate in here that is no "no you're wrong because I like this show and it can do no wrong". That's kind of why I stopped posting in these threads because it's like even if you enjoyed the show, but had a complaint, you were wrong. I agree with Belle for the most part on things, but heaven forbid you have any complaint on a show she likes.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 1:50 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Eh, the world is gone already. Not much to save.
You can't be serious
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:00 pm to LSUPERMAN
quote:
You do not know with a shadow of a doubt they did not give her a choice.
Think about the episode and the other episode with Marlene. She’s JUST like Joel, just on the opposite side. Do you really think between the conversations her and Joel had and the one Ellie had in the car with Joel that she was going to give Ellie a choice or gave her one? That she was told of the risks before being put down? She doesn’t even question Joel or fire back when he says they were running tests on you. If she was told what was going to happen, she would have said that doesn’t make sense, that’s not what they told me or something along those lines.
Do you guys need everything explicitly stated in every media you consume?
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:02 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
But again, you can't say this and keep saying we don't know that to the other points. Because we have no idea if they gave her a choice. I doubt they did, but I also personally think Ellie was probably willing to go forward with it either way.
There’s way more evidence with the subtext in Marlene and Joel and Joel and Ellie’s interaction afterward that heavily implies she had no idea she was going to die on that table.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:05 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Also, dont bring that "doctor was a threat because he held up a scalpel" weak stuff in here That dude was not a threat and you know it. He wasn't in attack mode, he was about to start a surgery and was in wait wtf is going on mode.
Dude. He was a Firefly. Yes he was a brain surgeon but a Firefly nonetheless. They’re extremists. Joel has no idea what that guy was willing to do. Hell, he could have held the knife to Ellie’s throat for all Joel knows.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:14 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Do you really think between the conversations her and Joel had and the one Ellie had in the car with Joel that she was going to give Ellie a choice or gave her one? That she was told of the risks before being put down? She doesn’t even question Joel or fire back when he says they were running tests on you.
Dude (I am assuming), She didn't say much and then turn her back to Joel. Her silence is saying something different. You are coming off as a "I can read between the lines" dick. YOU do not know for sure if she got to make a choice or not.
No one is saying Marlene is not like Joel. What I am saying is she COULD have gave Ellie that choice. Ellie not confronting Joel means that she is trusting Joel and not wanting to questioning him. Once again, conjuncture - JUST LIKE YOUR OPINION.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:25 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
but Marlene didn't deserve to die
What? She was going to kill Ellie without her consent. She would've never stopped hunting her down if he let her live.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:27 pm to LSUPERMAN
quote:
Ellie not confronting Joel means that she is trusting Joel and not wanting to questioning him
Ellie can be confrontational and still trust him. Her entire character is confrontational. You honestly believe if she was told about a surgery and Joel said they didn’t do a surgery and just ran tests that she wouldn’t have said something? I mean it’s not even about reading between the lines at this point. It’s common goddamn sense based on what we know about the characters
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:33 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
What? She was going to kill Ellie without her consent
Though I agree, you do not know this. Everything we know about Ellie's character leans towards thinking she would be fine with it even if she had to die. Also, as I've already said, killing Ellie was the lesser of the evils and actually beneficial for the rest of the world, not just Joel.
quote:
She would've never stopped hunting her down if he let her live
With who? The two nurses?
Or with a bullet in her stomach? O yes, a very daunting enemy. Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:40 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Though I agree, you do not know this. Everything we know about Ellie's character leans towards thinking she would be fine with it even if she had to die. Also, as I've already said, killing Ellie was the lesser of the evils and actually beneficial for the rest of the world, not just Joel.
You're working under the assumption that it was going to be a guaranteed success. Would Ellie be okay with an experiment that was going to kill her and very unlikely lead to a cure? If it was a guaranteed cure, then she'd probably lean towards doing it, but if it's a shot in the dark? Doubtful.
quote:
With who? The two nurses? Or with a bullet in her stomach? O yes, a very daunting enemy.
Because every single Firefly has been killed?
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:48 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
You're working under the assumption that it was going to be a guaranteed success. Would Ellie be okay with an experiment that was going to kill her and very unlikely lead to a cure? If it was a guaranteed cure, then she'd probably lean towards doing it, but if it's a shot in the dark? Doubtful.
Exactly. Ellie wanted to be the cure, but at no point did she indicate that she'd be okay with the price being some kind of low-success experiment that would include her being killed.
Posted on 3/13/23 at 2:59 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
With who? The two nurses? Or with a bullet in her stomach? O yes, a very daunting enemy.
because the entirety of the fireflies were in that building?
Marlene would have kept coming and to think any different is gullible. she wasn't a good person in the show or game (relatively speaking... there weren't lots of good people.)
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 3/13/23 at 3:24 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
You're working under the assumption that it was going to be a guaranteed success
I am. I'm also going along with what her storyline was working towards the entire series. Drawing closer to Joel but also knowing just how she is possibly the one person on the planet that could be a cure for zombie bites
Obviously we knew she wasn't going to die, but, Joel just running off with her and lying to her lessens the importance of her her charter. quote:
Because every single Firefly has been killed?
With her, yea, it seems they were. I guess she could travel all over with a bullet in her and round up the troops and go on a manhunt looking for her and one day storm into Tommy town guns blazing.
Edit: Looks like its back to a if you dislike anything about the show you're wrong and you shouldnt have any complaints thread. I admit, I was wrong, it's perfect, I will bow out.
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 3/13/23 at 3:37 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Obviously we knew she was going to die, but, Joel just running off with her and lying to her lessens the importance of her her charter.
I think the larger issue is that she (Ellie) may have not known that she was going to die.
quote:
Edit: Looks like its back to a if you dislike anything about the show you're wrong and you shouldnt have any complaints thread. I admit, I was wrong, it's perfect, I will bow out.
Just because people are countering your opinions doesn't mean you're "wrong" or that you can't have discussion here. Multiple posters have held both sides of the argument here, so I think you're overreacting a bit on this one.
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