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re: Star Wars vs Marvel vs Lord of the Rings!
Posted on 12/28/18 at 11:41 am to wildtigercat93
Posted on 12/28/18 at 11:41 am to wildtigercat93
I think they are all very different. LOTR is essentially one movie broken up into three parts. It was filmed all at the same time and designed to only make sense as a trilogy. I prefer to ignore the Hobbit money grabs, which are terrible. But LOTR has not just consistency of tone, but of visuals and performance. It's all one piece of art, broken into three.
Star Wars was a standalone film that then got a sequel due to its wild success, and that sequel was a middle part of the now trilogy. Frankly, the mythology of Star Wars doesn't withstand much scrutiny and the Frankenstein monster its become with each additional movie only highlights that point. This isn't so much a weakness as an admission of what Star Wars is: a singular movie followed by then two movies made after the fact, then additional trilogies built to continually expand the mythos of that first film. (Which gets into why I like LTJ and y'all hate it: it erased the blackboard and essentially started from scratch, getting out from under the unwieldy mythology which was basically ad hoc in the first place. If any series needed a reset button it was Star Wars).
The MCU is far more malleable. It is a shared universe in which the films are designed to standalone. Sure, there's a bit of an overarching plot, but its not essential. It's only consistent in tone, and is starting to break in new directions with so many different storytellers. It allows for a more detailed and richer world, but it also lacks any sort of unity of vision save the broad strokes.
It's all a matter of what you want most. They are hard to compare against one another.
Star Wars was a standalone film that then got a sequel due to its wild success, and that sequel was a middle part of the now trilogy. Frankly, the mythology of Star Wars doesn't withstand much scrutiny and the Frankenstein monster its become with each additional movie only highlights that point. This isn't so much a weakness as an admission of what Star Wars is: a singular movie followed by then two movies made after the fact, then additional trilogies built to continually expand the mythos of that first film. (Which gets into why I like LTJ and y'all hate it: it erased the blackboard and essentially started from scratch, getting out from under the unwieldy mythology which was basically ad hoc in the first place. If any series needed a reset button it was Star Wars).
The MCU is far more malleable. It is a shared universe in which the films are designed to standalone. Sure, there's a bit of an overarching plot, but its not essential. It's only consistent in tone, and is starting to break in new directions with so many different storytellers. It allows for a more detailed and richer world, but it also lacks any sort of unity of vision save the broad strokes.
It's all a matter of what you want most. They are hard to compare against one another.
0
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:11 pm to RLDSC FAN
Star Trek is a better franchise than all 3 of those. Even with Generations, Nemesis, and Discovery dragging it down. Not counting the Abrams junk because it was essentially a reboot.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:16 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
think you misread his post
I got it. My response wasn't clear I think.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:24 pm to Master of Sinanju
quote:
Star Wars should get a little credit for being original. The other franchises are adaptations of other works that are arguably superior to the movie versions
Well...Darth Vader is arguably ripping off Doctor Doom, so who’s original?
And coming to age hero story is a pretty standard story.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 2:37 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Well...Darth Vader is arguably ripping off Doctor Doom, so who’s original?
Star Wars is an amalgam of tons of previous works. The parallels with Kirby’s Fourth World alone show that Lucas was taking from other franchises. Plus it’s a big homage to adventure serials in general. Not that there’s nothing original about Star Wars, but it’s like saying that Raiders of the Lost Ark is a totally new concept.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:08 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
quote:
Do we get to count the tv shows and books?
Sure
I think i'd have to go star wars then - Marvel is the most consistent movie franchise.
LotR gets hurt in that ranking just due to its smaller volume. If Amazon actually moves forward with the LotR tv show, and it is done well, it could vault to the front though.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:09 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
quote:
Well...Darth Vader is arguably ripping off Doctor Doom, so who’s original?
Star Wars is an amalgam of tons of previous works. The parallels with Kirby’s Fourth World alone show that Lucas was taking from other franchises. Plus it’s a big homage to adventure serials in general. Not that there’s nothing original about Star Wars, but it’s like saying that Raiders of the Lost Ark is a totally new concept.
Ya its a classic archetypal story - but so is most of this stuff when you boil it down to its base level.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:11 pm to Sneaky__Sally
If you're going to include the animated Star Wars TV series, keep in mind that Daredevil, Punisher, and Jessica Jones are in the MCU as well.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 3:40 pm to RLDSC FAN
Lord of the Rings has the best executed and most consistent trilogy.
Marvel has the most fun standalone movie: Thor: Ragnorok (Iron Man is a close second and the Guardians of the Galaxy movies are all awesome as well).
Star Wars evokes the most wonder and has the most interesting universe, in my opinion. I also find the original Star Wars trilogy to be the most entertaining and emotionally evocative trilogy ever put on film.
However, each series has flaws:
Lord of the Rings suffers from the Hobbit in that they were so massively disappointing compared to LOTR. However, which trilogy produced better movies, honestly: The Hobbit or the Star Wars Prequels? We trash the Hobbit for its stretching of the source material, but each movie is still pretty damn interesting, well-made, well-acted, and entertaining. The other issue is watchability. Every movie is 3 hours long, and the tone is very dramatic and heavy. You have to be in the mood for this kind of movie. Plus, with every movie being so trilogy reliant, it's hard to enjoy just one random movie at a time. You can pop on any marvel movie any time and enjoy it relatively easily. Heck, even the original Star Wars movies are easier to enjoy as separate films. In that way, the appeal isn't as wide. This is like a player who may be the best ever at their position, but doesn't play a flashy position, instead is someone like a placekicker, middle reliever, or a left tackle.
Marvel is a series that rarely feels like it hits any kinds of artistic peaks. It consistently produces above average action-comedies that are fun, well-paced, decently-acted, and extremely re-watchable. To me, they're like a Major League Baseball player that consistently hits close to .300 over a 12 year career but rarely hits home-runs or extra-base hits. Just a consistent good player. Are any of the "bad" Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Captain America, Thor: The Dark World) worse than The Last Jedi or Attack of the Clones? The answer is no. However, are any of the "great" Marvel movies (Iron Man, Infinity War, Winter Soldier, Ragnorok, Black Panther, Guardians 1 & 2) anywhere near as "good" as "The Twin Towers" or "The Empire Strikes Back"? No, they're not even close. Marvel is consistently good, occasionally exceptional, never truly bad and never truly great. However, remarkable consistency over a long period of time is definitely a form of greatness. Kal Ripkin and Brett Farve are in their respective sports' Halls of Fame, after all.
Star Wars suffers from the overuse of CGI, atrocious dialogue, and bad acting in Episodes II, III, & VIII (even though I still find ROTS to be somewhat entertaining). No other franchise produces bombs like Star Wars, but does anything compare to the pure magic that is "A New Hope" the first time you see it? Everyone has seen these movies so many times that it's hard to remember the shock of one of the best twists in cinematic history in "Empire", which was akin to beheading Sean Bean in Season 1 of Game of Thrones. However, this series has never seemed to deliver on the promise of Empire since then...until Rogue One. Rogue One is the only reason Star Wars shouldn't be written off as a dead franchise. That movie was a damn near perfect stand-alone film. It shows that this franchise may still have some juice in the squeeze. Star Wars is like a hotshot draft pick that sets the league on fire for a few years, then gets side-lined by injuries and seems to never be the same only to occasionally tease that spark he used to have.
Marvel has the most fun standalone movie: Thor: Ragnorok (Iron Man is a close second and the Guardians of the Galaxy movies are all awesome as well).
Star Wars evokes the most wonder and has the most interesting universe, in my opinion. I also find the original Star Wars trilogy to be the most entertaining and emotionally evocative trilogy ever put on film.
However, each series has flaws:
Lord of the Rings suffers from the Hobbit in that they were so massively disappointing compared to LOTR. However, which trilogy produced better movies, honestly: The Hobbit or the Star Wars Prequels? We trash the Hobbit for its stretching of the source material, but each movie is still pretty damn interesting, well-made, well-acted, and entertaining. The other issue is watchability. Every movie is 3 hours long, and the tone is very dramatic and heavy. You have to be in the mood for this kind of movie. Plus, with every movie being so trilogy reliant, it's hard to enjoy just one random movie at a time. You can pop on any marvel movie any time and enjoy it relatively easily. Heck, even the original Star Wars movies are easier to enjoy as separate films. In that way, the appeal isn't as wide. This is like a player who may be the best ever at their position, but doesn't play a flashy position, instead is someone like a placekicker, middle reliever, or a left tackle.
Marvel is a series that rarely feels like it hits any kinds of artistic peaks. It consistently produces above average action-comedies that are fun, well-paced, decently-acted, and extremely re-watchable. To me, they're like a Major League Baseball player that consistently hits close to .300 over a 12 year career but rarely hits home-runs or extra-base hits. Just a consistent good player. Are any of the "bad" Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Captain America, Thor: The Dark World) worse than The Last Jedi or Attack of the Clones? The answer is no. However, are any of the "great" Marvel movies (Iron Man, Infinity War, Winter Soldier, Ragnorok, Black Panther, Guardians 1 & 2) anywhere near as "good" as "The Twin Towers" or "The Empire Strikes Back"? No, they're not even close. Marvel is consistently good, occasionally exceptional, never truly bad and never truly great. However, remarkable consistency over a long period of time is definitely a form of greatness. Kal Ripkin and Brett Farve are in their respective sports' Halls of Fame, after all.
Star Wars suffers from the overuse of CGI, atrocious dialogue, and bad acting in Episodes II, III, & VIII (even though I still find ROTS to be somewhat entertaining). No other franchise produces bombs like Star Wars, but does anything compare to the pure magic that is "A New Hope" the first time you see it? Everyone has seen these movies so many times that it's hard to remember the shock of one of the best twists in cinematic history in "Empire", which was akin to beheading Sean Bean in Season 1 of Game of Thrones. However, this series has never seemed to deliver on the promise of Empire since then...until Rogue One. Rogue One is the only reason Star Wars shouldn't be written off as a dead franchise. That movie was a damn near perfect stand-alone film. It shows that this franchise may still have some juice in the squeeze. Star Wars is like a hotshot draft pick that sets the league on fire for a few years, then gets side-lined by injuries and seems to never be the same only to occasionally tease that spark he used to have.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 12/28/18 at 4:02 pm to kingbob
Good post
Only thing I disagree with. I don't understand when the hate for ROTJ started because I remember it being a beloved film growing up. I personally love it. Yes, the Ewoks were childish but the rest of the film is so fun. The throne scene with Luke, Vader and the emperor is pure greatness.
quote:
However, this series has never seemed to deliver on the promise of Empire since then...until Rogue One
Only thing I disagree with. I don't understand when the hate for ROTJ started because I remember it being a beloved film growing up. I personally love it. Yes, the Ewoks were childish but the rest of the film is so fun. The throne scene with Luke, Vader and the emperor is pure greatness.
Posted on 12/28/18 at 9:15 pm to RLDSC FAN
The more you look at it, the more disparate the series are.
Nothing tops the original Star Wars trilogy for pure, inspired adventure. Granted, the Ewoks were a big mistake, and things have gone downhill since. But the fact remains, 2 and a half movies is still spawning potential billion dollar films 40+ years after the first one came out. It was inconceivable that someone could screw up the franchise the way it's been done.
LOTR was a more mature, epic masterpiece. The film trilogy clearly was produced to be the fantasy Star Wars, and it succeeded. But like others have said, there are many elements the books exceed the films, and then The Hobbit happened.
Marvel- that's just a happy realization that films can roll over, and you can tell a continuing story. Before this, we'd go no more than 3 superhero films without either a reboot, or a serious divergence in the scheme. I mean, Batman and Robin have zero to do with Batman, different actors, different Gotham basically.
Marvel is competing not with SW or LOTR, but GoT. The bad MCU films are still required viewing to catch details, just like some otherwise boring GoT episodes carry a lot of stuff you otherwise miss.
Nothing tops the original Star Wars trilogy for pure, inspired adventure. Granted, the Ewoks were a big mistake, and things have gone downhill since. But the fact remains, 2 and a half movies is still spawning potential billion dollar films 40+ years after the first one came out. It was inconceivable that someone could screw up the franchise the way it's been done.
LOTR was a more mature, epic masterpiece. The film trilogy clearly was produced to be the fantasy Star Wars, and it succeeded. But like others have said, there are many elements the books exceed the films, and then The Hobbit happened.
Marvel- that's just a happy realization that films can roll over, and you can tell a continuing story. Before this, we'd go no more than 3 superhero films without either a reboot, or a serious divergence in the scheme. I mean, Batman and Robin have zero to do with Batman, different actors, different Gotham basically.
Marvel is competing not with SW or LOTR, but GoT. The bad MCU films are still required viewing to catch details, just like some otherwise boring GoT episodes carry a lot of stuff you otherwise miss.
Posted on 12/29/18 at 10:29 am to Scoob
quote:
Marvel- that's just a happy realization that films can roll over, and you can tell a continuing story. Before this, we'd go no more than 3 superhero films without either a reboot, or a serious divergence in the scheme. I
Yeah, it's amazing how they've been able to get these actors to sign on for 5+ films. You don't ever see that.
Posted on 12/29/18 at 6:34 pm to RLDSC FAN
SW well is poisoned thanks to JJ Rey and Finn. Back then it was cutting edge under Lucas and a saga that span more than one film was intriguing. Unfortunately for them Marvel not only have done it over a longer period of time but each and everyone of their film is a hit.
Star Wars is trying to mimic Marvel by releasing Side Stories but unfortunately, the Star Wars universe is not as rich compared to the Marvel one.
The Lord of the RIng is a classic but it is more remember fondly instead of watched often due how long the entire journey took.
Star Wars is trying to mimic Marvel by releasing Side Stories but unfortunately, the Star Wars universe is not as rich compared to the Marvel one.
The Lord of the RIng is a classic but it is more remember fondly instead of watched often due how long the entire journey took.
Posted on 12/30/18 at 8:48 pm to Duzz
quote:Well, very few universes compare to Marvel (DC obviously has a chance); but Marvel also made smart casting moves.
SW well is poisoned thanks to JJ Rey and Finn. Back then it was cutting edge under Lucas and a saga that span more than one film was intriguing. Unfortunately for them Marvel not only have done it over a longer period of time but each and everyone of their film is a hit.
Star Wars is trying to mimic Marvel by releasing Side Stories but unfortunately, the Star Wars universe is not as rich compared to the Marvel one.
I don't remember being much into Iron Man, but Robert Downey Jr has made him an icon. Star Wars lucked into Harrison Ford the first time around, but doesn't seem to have hit it well this time. And the one potential, Isaac Oscar, they've just made a movie undercutting him, instead of trying to build him up.
Posted on 12/30/18 at 9:41 pm to RLDSC FAN
I think the better question would be which one has the greatest lore
Posted on 12/30/18 at 10:10 pm to Macintosh
quote:Lore kicks over to the books.
I think the better question would be which one has the greatest lore
Tolkien's works win that in a blowout, with Marvel (through shear volume) coming in second. Star Wars is great, but in comparison to those, is very thin.
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