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re: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:50 am to CAD703X
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:50 am to CAD703X
quote:
this has all the halmarks of owning a property that is too big to manage. too many people involved..too many hands in the kitchen..t
I’ll be honest, I think that’s a huge part of the problem.
A Trilogy is supposed to mesh well, but it feels like Rian Johnson got the job and said “you know what, just frick that other movie. frick it to hell. I’m just gonna make my own shite right here “. And as a stand alone, it still had its problems. But they were magnified when you were like “hey, wasn’t there just a movie that was made before this one? What about that movie? And what about all of this other shite that doesn’t go with any of the other movies?” If you can completely disregard any of the other movies in the saga you could possibly like this movie. It is still a very flawed and incoherent film but it had explosions and space battles and shite, some action. Some of the Kylo and Rey scenes were fabulously done, but they alone couldn’t save this film from the rest of itself.
0
Posted on 1/4/18 at 6:49 am to Kujo
quote:
actually I think I will start with Rogue 1 before New Hope.
Rogue 1 becomes the ice cream in the Sundae as it lines up perfectly.
Forget the prequels and TLJ will get a skip as well.
This is honestly the best viewing order I’ve heard by far. My son has already seen all 9 movies (he likes the prequels which means I’ve failed him as a father), but if I could do it over again I’d watch in this order:
R1
ANH
ESB
ROTJ
TFA
I’d just lie to him at the end of TFA and say “the entire FO died on Starkiller base, Finn will be fine, they found Luke, everything is back to normal.”
Posted on 1/4/18 at 7:00 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
I rewatched ESB and RotJ with my boys and again got another appreciation of how difficult it SHOULD BE to use the force. Luke could barely pull his light saber in Hoth and had to get training from Yoda himself to barely do anything - but Rey is a force wielding master after being exposed to it for a week.
Just silly laziness in writing.
Agreed.
One of biggest issues with this trilogy is how easily Rey is using the Force with no training or background.
Luke has his throwaway line in TLJ about how it doesn’t take anything special to be a Jedi, which sort of destroys 7 movies’ worth of canon about what it takes to master the Force and become a Jedi.
Rey knew nothing about the Force or the Jedi. A few days later she’s kicking Kylo’s arse in a lightsaber fight on Starkiller Base, and a few days after that she’s whipping Luke’s arse in a stick fight so bad he winds up on the ground. Get real.
Luke could barely lift a few stones in ESB while being trained by Yoda, but Rey is lifting a field of boulders to save the Resistance in TLJ.
I like Rey, but I have an issue with the fact that she hasn’t really experienced failure yet, and she just keeps on mastering the Force with quite literally no training whatsoever. Luke failed miserably in ESB - he runs off to fight Vader, who proceeds to toy with him before he cuts his hand off.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 7:33 am to Feral
Yes. This is the problem.
Remove the star wars Fandom from your eyes. It only serves to galvanize the proponents of this movie.
All the people defending this movie, I'd like them to read and refute this post:
The movie itself fails at the core of being a movie.
There's no protagonist. Rey is a straight up goddess. She absolutely masters everything she thinks of without training or struggle. She never waivers in her convictions. She easily overcomes every situation without conflict or resolution.
She's boring as frick and completely unrelatable. Also, she has almost nothing to do in the entire movie and she's absent for the final third of it. Until she miraculously shows up at the end somehow getting to Snoke's escape ship and operating it and then transferring from that to the Falcon and then somehow showing up at the exact right place and time despite not knowing where any of that was or whatever.
Luke, who was absent for 30 years and the focal point of episode VII, is again absent, refuses to train Rey, and then also isn't there for the climax. He was supposed to be but then they just decided to rob the audience of that climax and he's really just levitating on the island he never left.
And then at the end Leia, who is an extremely powerful force user, and the leader of the resistance, and just came back from the dead, and everyone just watched her communicate with Luke, says, ah frick it, just follow Poe down this cave he's never been in, I'm too lazy to lead yall anymore. Couldn't she just throw all those rocks out the way? She literally can fly through space but she can't move a couple rocks or whatever.
The antagonist is I guess whoever is operating the laser cannons on the one ship the first order decides to fire at the escape pods with? They never send Fighters or bombers or call in back up or anything they just let one ship lob unharmful cannon fire at them for a while or whatever.
The plot of the movie is a nightmare. There seem to be atleast 4 different stories being told all at once and we just kind of randomly jump in and out of them so the viewer gets no clear attachment. None of the plots of any of these 4 stories (resistance ship being attacked, Rey and Luke, Finn and Rose, Poe and Dern) affect any of the characters in any meaningful way. I'd be amazed if any of you could show me significant character growth in any character outside of Finn, who for the first time decides to stay and fight instead of run but the viewer is robbed of this climax when rose ex machina saves him. And then he somehow just walks right past the entire first order and the explosions surrounding Luke into the base or whatever the frick that scene was.
Also, those 4 plots never intersect for a conclusion.
Rey with Luke doesn't effect any of the other plots. The entire Finn and Rose line failed, Poe was right the entire time and the only reason they're alive is because he destroyed that dreadnaught, but for some reason he rebuked for it while Laura Dern allows the entire fleet to be destroyed along with most of the escape pods before she decides to hyperspace herself through whatever.
I hate this fricking movie. It's a failure on the basic level of storytelling and plot structure.
It's a failure at character building.
It's a failure as a stand alone Scifi fantasy movie.
It's a failure as a second movie in a trilogy
It's a failure as a Star Wars movie.
It's an abject failure at every level you look at.
Rian Johnson and Disney Studios should issue a public apology and then just let JJ and Kasdan redo episode 8. Bring in a team of writers who understand the IP to help write both VII and IX with a clear outline and plot before filming begins.
Remove the star wars Fandom from your eyes. It only serves to galvanize the proponents of this movie.
All the people defending this movie, I'd like them to read and refute this post:
The movie itself fails at the core of being a movie.
There's no protagonist. Rey is a straight up goddess. She absolutely masters everything she thinks of without training or struggle. She never waivers in her convictions. She easily overcomes every situation without conflict or resolution.
She's boring as frick and completely unrelatable. Also, she has almost nothing to do in the entire movie and she's absent for the final third of it. Until she miraculously shows up at the end somehow getting to Snoke's escape ship and operating it and then transferring from that to the Falcon and then somehow showing up at the exact right place and time despite not knowing where any of that was or whatever.
Luke, who was absent for 30 years and the focal point of episode VII, is again absent, refuses to train Rey, and then also isn't there for the climax. He was supposed to be but then they just decided to rob the audience of that climax and he's really just levitating on the island he never left.
And then at the end Leia, who is an extremely powerful force user, and the leader of the resistance, and just came back from the dead, and everyone just watched her communicate with Luke, says, ah frick it, just follow Poe down this cave he's never been in, I'm too lazy to lead yall anymore. Couldn't she just throw all those rocks out the way? She literally can fly through space but she can't move a couple rocks or whatever.
The antagonist is I guess whoever is operating the laser cannons on the one ship the first order decides to fire at the escape pods with? They never send Fighters or bombers or call in back up or anything they just let one ship lob unharmful cannon fire at them for a while or whatever.
The plot of the movie is a nightmare. There seem to be atleast 4 different stories being told all at once and we just kind of randomly jump in and out of them so the viewer gets no clear attachment. None of the plots of any of these 4 stories (resistance ship being attacked, Rey and Luke, Finn and Rose, Poe and Dern) affect any of the characters in any meaningful way. I'd be amazed if any of you could show me significant character growth in any character outside of Finn, who for the first time decides to stay and fight instead of run but the viewer is robbed of this climax when rose ex machina saves him. And then he somehow just walks right past the entire first order and the explosions surrounding Luke into the base or whatever the frick that scene was.
Also, those 4 plots never intersect for a conclusion.
Rey with Luke doesn't effect any of the other plots. The entire Finn and Rose line failed, Poe was right the entire time and the only reason they're alive is because he destroyed that dreadnaught, but for some reason he rebuked for it while Laura Dern allows the entire fleet to be destroyed along with most of the escape pods before she decides to hyperspace herself through whatever.
I hate this fricking movie. It's a failure on the basic level of storytelling and plot structure.
It's a failure at character building.
It's a failure as a stand alone Scifi fantasy movie.
It's a failure as a second movie in a trilogy
It's a failure as a Star Wars movie.
It's an abject failure at every level you look at.
Rian Johnson and Disney Studios should issue a public apology and then just let JJ and Kasdan redo episode 8. Bring in a team of writers who understand the IP to help write both VII and IX with a clear outline and plot before filming begins.
This post was edited on 1/4/18 at 8:11 am
Posted on 1/4/18 at 8:57 am to Breesus
I went and saw it Saturday for the first time.
I'm 50. I saw Hope at age 9. Waited almost a day at the really old Bon Marche Twin to see Empire.
I accept that the movie and the franchise isn't mine anymore. I am willing to follow the thing until I'm no longer here. The three prequels were abortions but I went and also bought the stupid things
. Enjoyed Force and actually really liked Rogue. Willing to accept wherever they chose to go as long as it was understandable.
It wasn't. It's a poorly constructed movie that is not well thought out. I am not going to argue about force and how it's used and who has what. Doesn't matter. I'll buy those changes. I'm easy. Just make it a solid movie. And it just is not a good movie. I still do not know the "point". Why did I need to see it? What part of the story makes me say I have to see the next episode? There is nothing there. It was pointless.
A real disappointment not on a Star Wars "legacy" level.
A real disappointment on a story-telling, invest in the characters involved level. I liked the damn birds on Luke's island more than anything else. Dammit.
I'm 50. I saw Hope at age 9. Waited almost a day at the really old Bon Marche Twin to see Empire.
I accept that the movie and the franchise isn't mine anymore. I am willing to follow the thing until I'm no longer here. The three prequels were abortions but I went and also bought the stupid things
. Enjoyed Force and actually really liked Rogue. Willing to accept wherever they chose to go as long as it was understandable. It wasn't. It's a poorly constructed movie that is not well thought out. I am not going to argue about force and how it's used and who has what. Doesn't matter. I'll buy those changes. I'm easy. Just make it a solid movie. And it just is not a good movie. I still do not know the "point". Why did I need to see it? What part of the story makes me say I have to see the next episode? There is nothing there. It was pointless.
A real disappointment not on a Star Wars "legacy" level.
A real disappointment on a story-telling, invest in the characters involved level. I liked the damn birds on Luke's island more than anything else. Dammit.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:17 am to danfraz
quote:
. I liked the damn birds on Luke's island more than anything else.
Even more than the frog nuns?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:18 am to Breesus
quote:
Even more than the frog nuns?
well 1A and 1B
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:34 am to Breesus
quote:
Even more than the frog nuns?
How did he convince them that he belonged and was allowed to squat on the island? Did he have to use the Force and punt one of them into the water?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:53 am to Walking the Earth
quote:
How did he convince them that he belonged and was allowed to squat on the island?
I just assumed he was banging a of them and I patiently await the Romantic Dramady Star Wars: Big Love.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:54 am to Breesus
quote:
Even more than the frog nuns?
The nuns were the best part of the damn story! LOL
Posted on 1/4/18 at 10:14 am to Breesus
quote:
I just assumed he was banging a of them and I patiently await the Romantic Dramady Star Wars: Big Love.
Luke and Lilly: A Frog's Tale
Posted on 1/4/18 at 1:47 pm to Feral
quote:This. All of this!!! frick this new Trilogy!
One of biggest issues with this trilogy is how easily Rey is using the Force with no training or background.
Luke has his throwaway line in TLJ about how it doesn’t take anything special to be a Jedi, which sort of destroys 7 movies’ worth of canon about what it takes to master the Force and become a Jedi.
Rey knew nothing about the Force or the Jedi. A few days later she’s kicking Kylo’s arse in a lightsaber fight on Starkiller Base, and a few days after that she’s whipping Luke’s arse in a stick fight so bad he winds up on the ground. Get real.
Luke could barely lift a few stones in ESB while being trained by Yoda, but Rey is lifting a field of boulders to save the Resistance in TLJ.
I like Rey, but I have an issue with the fact that she hasn’t really experienced failure yet, and she just keeps on mastering the Force with quite literally no training whatsoever. Luke failed miserably in ESB - he runs off to fight Vader, who proceeds to toy with him before he cuts his hand off.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:07 pm to Mahootney
quote:
This. All of this!!! frick this new Trilogy!
True, but I always remember how utterly worthless all the Jedi not named Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, or Yoda were in the PT.
Green dinosaur-head dude from Attack of the Clones was a jedi council member and literally literally got killed by Jango Fett about 5 seconds after he turned his lightsaber on.
Don't even get me started on the Jedi who accompanied Mace to arrest Palpatine.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:15 pm to BulldogXero
quote:It's the opposite that pisses me off.
True, but I always remember how utterly worthless all the Jedi not named Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, or Yoda were in the PT.
Rey just says, "oh, yes.... the force"... closes her eyes, and becomes Master Yoda.
WTF.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:28 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
Don't even get me started on the Jedi who accompanied Mace to arrest Palpatine.
A video on the canon reason why they were killed so quickly.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:36 pm to Breesus
quote:
I hate this fricking movie. It's a failure on the basic level of storytelling and plot structure.
It's a failure at character building.
It's a failure as a stand alone Scifi fantasy movie.
It's a failure as a second movie in a trilogy
It's a failure as a Star Wars movie.
It's an abject failure at every level you look at.
well said whoever this was.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:38 pm to danfraz
quote:
actually really liked Rogue.
when you simplify the plot (get the death star plans to the rebels) its amazing how well you can build a movie and characters around that.
still not sure what was going on with TLJ
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:29 pm to CAD703X
quote:
well said whoever this was.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:29 pm to danfraz
quote:
I still do not know the "point". Why did I need to see it? What part of the story makes me say I have to see the next episode?
well, the story was so terrible and pointless like you said, that you have to see the third one b/c it will be the actual sequel to the first one. You can just pretend this movie never happened, and when you rewatch them all, you just don't watch episode 8, b/c it is pointless. You can just assume Luke falls off the cliff in episode 7 reaching for the light sword and dies, and then assume Snoke was just a ghost that found something else to do.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 3:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You can just assume Luke falls off the cliff in episode 7 reaching for the light sword and dies, and then assume Snoke was just a ghost that found something else to do.
Luke was a dream for Rey from the force. And Snoke is bound to still be alive so that will resolve itself.
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