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Spinoff: Is The Silmarillion possible to adapt to screen

Posted on 12/16/18 at 5:00 pm
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
27322 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 5:00 pm
I admit, it's virtually impossible from a movie standpoint, unless you dedicated 10 or so films a la Harry Potter, but in saying that, I just don't know if there is enough fleshing out of many of the stories to get a good narrative whole book is less than 400 pages).

LOTR was basically one big event over three books. Silmarillion is like 25 big events, told in sporadic chapters, over a span of thousands and thousands of years.

Maybe Amazon will tackle some of the stories in it, especially the elves vs. Melkor wars (which I find utterly fascinating and much more biblical than LOTR), but it would probably take a Game of Thrones type dedication and a ton of money and good writing to get the proper character development.

This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 5:05 pm
Posted by AshLSU
Member since Nov 2015
12868 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 5:34 pm to
I’d love to see it done as a GoT type series.
Posted by ElectricWizard0
Member since Jul 2017
2702 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 5:47 pm to
It would have to be done as a series, but that would be a huge risk of investment. Game of thrones built their brand season by season, getting better and spending more year after year. One advantage this would have however is that all the source material is already written and available whereas GoT kind of had to put the cart before the horse because of Martin’s lack of urgency with his books
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 6:05 pm to
No
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115272 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:05 pm to
Yes.

As a series/anthology.

Merge it with other post-death Tolkien works.
Posted by Cooter Davenport
Austin, TX
Member since Apr 2012
9006 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 7:24 pm to
No. And it wasn’t written to be read by the public, either. Tolkien wrote it for himself, to keep his cosmology straight. He never intended to release it, for good reason. It’s not really a novel with dialogue, a story arc and characters that develop; it’s just a dry accounting of the history of a fictional universe. Maybe a movie could be made set in one of the events described in the Silmarillion, fleshed out with characters, dialogue, and a self-contained story arc, but a film of the Silmarillion itself would be like filming Edward Gibbon’s Decline and Fall... it’s a long history; you’d need to pick an event and write a separate self contained story set at that time with actual human interest.
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
10694 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:23 pm to
That’s like asking, “Could you make a movie about the entirety of Greek mythology?” It is simply too expansive a story to ever be told in an abbreviated version. The tale of Beren and Lúthien would be the most filmable, but would make no sense and be bereft of all emotional impact divorced from the overarching story of the Wars of the Silmarils.
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4708 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:28 pm to
Nope...





This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 9:29 pm
Posted by Muthsera
Member since Jun 2017
7319 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 9:30 pm to
No.

It has less narrative structure than the LOTR appendices.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:14 pm to
As TV anthology series (movies or shows), sure. But, while I'm a huge Tolkien fan and would love to see this adapted, it would have to be done by someone extremely good because it's covering so many different stories, so many milieus, and so much history that it would be almost impossible to develop a new fan following (as opposed to hardcore fans of Tolkien's writings) because it's just too broad and epic. Or to put it more on the nose, too complicated and confusing. The average audience member would have difficulty relating because most anthology series are designed so episodes work as stand-alone united by a common theme (Twilight Zone is the classic example) but Tolkien's stories don't really work as stand-alones because they partake of a common mythology and their significance springs from that. It's difficult to talk about one character without giving context involving centuries.

Just to be clear, this isn't a major fan saying general audiences aren't equipped to handle it. It's a major fan saying it's difficult to give general audiences a good reason to make the effort over the course of several stories. If you can't do that, the audiences are completely justified in tuning you out. I do think a very good writer could adapt a few of the stories. "Guardians of the Galaxy" would be my go-to justification -- little-known aspect of the Marvel Universe to the general audiences but they were willing to embrace it because it was well-done.

Edit: corrected "are" to "aren't"
This post was edited on 12/16/18 at 10:19 pm
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
27322 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:05 pm to
quote:

it wasn’t written to be read by the public, either. Tolkien wrote it for himself, to keep his cosmology straight. He never intended to release it


I had no idea about this, but it makes total sense now. I don't care that it lacks a narrative style... Those stories, to me, are just far more fascinating than a lot of the stuff in LOTR, due to their epicness in the true sense of the word.

If you did make a Silmaril anthology story, focusing on Beren and Luthien, you could always have a big long intro at beginning of ep 1 that sets the whole scene for the world they lived and how special the gems were, to give the audience a good background of whats going on.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:34 pm to
quote:


I had no idea about this, but it makes total sense now.


It's not actually true, though. Tolkien even tried to get it published but the publisher rejected it. Reasonably so, since Tolkien was best known just for "The Hobbit" at the time, and "The Silmarillion" is many things, but it's not a good follow-up to "The Hobbit." The publishers also didn't like what they felt was a Scotch-Irish vibe to it. No idea why, unless it was because they wanted a more Anglo-Saxon feel to it, like "The Hobbit" had.

The rejection worked out for the best, though, because Tolkien then went to work on fleshing out the much more accessible and narratively coherent LotR instead.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
84660 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:37 pm to
Maybe build a movie around Melkor and Ungoliant vs the Valar.

Would be tough. I don’t even think their appearances are described in any detail.
Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:48 pm to
quote:


Maybe build a movie around Melkor and Ungoliant vs the Valar.

Would be tough. I don’t even think their appearances are described in any detail.


They're basically Sauron and Shelob. Melkor is described as being tall and dark, but he can change shape as readily as Sauron (beautiful human, elf, Necromancer, damaged, flaming eye, though that's a misunderstanding -- the eye was an extension of him, but he wasn't just the eye) can. We know Melkor came to wear a massive iron crown and later he had a giant burn on his hand from grabbing a Silmaril. Honestly, in later years, a bigger more dangerous-looking version of Sauron in his armor would probably work just fine for Morgoth.

Ungoliant generally looks like a really big spider. Shelob was one of Ungoliant's bratty kids.
Posted by Cooter Davenport
Austin, TX
Member since Apr 2012
9006 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 5:35 am to
quote:

I don't care that it lacks a narrative style


It’d be like filming The Encyclopedia.

You and I may love overdosing on anything Tolkien, but there’s just not enough people out there like that to justify what would be a gigantic expense.

I guarantee any and all movie or TV executives will say “great, pick out one especially compelling sub-story and flesh it out into a screenplay with an actual narrative, fully developed characters, and dialogue”.

Otherwise it’s just a cosmology. It’d be like saying “let’s make Norse Mythology, The Movie”. No. You have to pick one mythological figure and make a story about one especially compelling adventure he’s involved in.

Take for example The Odyssey. It doesn’t try to be All of Greek Mythology, it’s just the saga of one main guy and his companions on a trip. That’s why it’s compelling.
Posted by Paul B Ammer
The Mecca of Tuscaloosa
Member since Jul 2017
2423 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 6:30 am to
Set aside the right issue-as Christopher Tolkien still has the right to it and all the Second Age material. However, development is being done. Four movies are being proposed


I. The Coming of the Elves
II. The Return of the Noldor
III. Unnumbered Tears
IV. The War of Wrath.

The cost though is expected to be around $250 million apiece which is prohibitive.

It could work as an HBO type multi-year series (Netflix would not have the resources to pull it off). But that would be even riskier than theater as keeping a cast/crew together is unlikely as well as finding an audience beyond just Tolkien fans or the fantasy genre.

Well done it could be an epic and a worthy successor to LOTR. But it could also be just another Hobbit.
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 8:21 am to
The Silmarillion is the only Tolkien book that I haven't read a dozen times. If I read books anymore I could see myself rereading it now. I would go see any movie or TV show based on anything Tolkien.
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
27322 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Set aside the right issue-as Christopher Tolkien still has the right to it and all the Second Age material. However, development is being done. Four movies are being proposed


I. The Coming of the Elves
II. The Return of the Noldor
III. Unnumbered Tears
IV. The War of Wrath.

The cost though is expected to be around $250 million apiece which is prohibitive.


Who is trying to develop this? I would assume Christopher Tolkien would be very very protective of these stories if he ever sold the rights to them.

I would hope he would demand they be done properly, with no Hollywood behind the scenes bullshite.

War of Wrath and Coming of the Elves would be incredible to see done well.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33488 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:12 pm to
I believe Amazon acquired the rights to some LOTR universe source material about a year ago. Could be Silmarillion

Read The Silmarillion recently, really enjoyed it
This post was edited on 12/17/18 at 1:13 pm
Posted by BigOrangeVols
Knoxville
Member since Jul 2015
3082 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:16 pm to
As long as it wasn't another repeat of the Hobbit.
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