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Question about The Silence of the Lambs

Posted on 10/31/17 at 6:53 pm
Posted by EnglebertHumperdink
Club Med
Member since Nov 2009
340 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 6:53 pm
I’m assuming Buffalo Bill is the one who shoved that moth cocoon down that victim’s throat that Sterling found. Did he want to get caught? He knew it was a rare specimen.
This post was edited on 10/31/17 at 6:59 pm
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 7:36 pm to
Wasn't the victim a shrink that Jamie Gumb/Buffalo Bill was seeing to be evaluated for sex reassignment? The shrink didn't think he "qualified" (for lack of a better term) for surgery, so Gumb killed him and put the chrysalis down his throat to represent his upcoming change. Or something like that!
Posted by EnglebertHumperdink
Club Med
Member since Nov 2009
340 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 8:45 pm to
Ok makes sense. Thanks
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
20485 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 9:17 pm to
I think you're referencing a couple of different things between book and movie that don't necessarily tie up.

In the movie, the moths are just there in his basement.

In the book, you're right that he does kill and decapitate a man that lectern knew about but I'm not sure if that's the psychologist who turned him down for a sex change. I kinda remember it a little differently.

But I don't remember any men being killed by gumbo in the movie.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80520 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

I’m assuming Buffalo Bill is the one who shoved that moth cocoon down that victim’s throat that Sterling found. Did he want to get caught? He knew it was a rare specimen.


From what I remember, it was a calling card I presume.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80520 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

Wasn't the victim a shrink that Jamie Gumb/Buffalo Bill was seeing to be evaluated for sex reassignment? The shrink didn't think he "qualified" (for lack of a better term) for surgery, so Gumb killed him and put the chrysalis down his throat to represent his upcoming change. Or something like that!


in the movie, His first victim lived in the same small town as him and was a neighbor.

Hannibal Lecter: First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?

Clarice Starling: He kills women...

Hannibal Lecter: No. That is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does? What needs does he serve by killing?

Clarice Starling: Anger, um, social acceptance, and, huh, sexual frustrations, sir...

Hannibal Lecter: No! He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer now.

Clarice Starling: No. We just...

Hannibal Lecter: No. We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80520 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 9:34 pm to
quote:

In the movie, the moths are just there in his basement.


In the movie, one of the moth cocoons is down the throat of one of his victims.
Posted by Honest Tune
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2011
19285 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 9:59 pm to
It was the girl they dug out of the river in West Virginia that had the cocoon in her mouth.
Posted by Spock's Eyebrow
Member since May 2012
12300 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 10:27 pm to
quote:

Gumb killed him and put the chrysalis down his throat to represent his upcoming change. Or something like that!


In the book, I also remember Lecter talking about the pupa as
"imago," which had relevance to Gumb's perception of his parents, specifically, his mom. I don't remember the details, but she was part of his fantasy/pathology.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
70546 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 11:17 pm to
One was found in the first girls throat and one was found in Benjamin Raspels severed head. The head agent Starling found in that old storage building.
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9666 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 11:30 pm to
I think you're referencing a couple of different things between book and movie that don't necessarily tie up.

That could very well be. I read the book in about 1990 and last saw the movie about 15 years ago.



In the movie, the moths are just there in his basement.

That's were he was breeding them, but I thought some were also found in the victims throats.



In the book, you're right that he does kill and decapitate a man that lectern knew about but I'm not sure if that's the psychologist who turned him down for a sex change. I kinda remember it a little differently.

Could be. It was a long time ago.



But I don't remember any men being killed by gumbo in the movie.

Lector was feeding Starling some clues. Clarice uses her car jack to force the door in an old storage unit. There's an antique touring sedan/limo inside with drapes in the rear windows. She finds a man's head on the back seat. I thought that guy was determined to be a missing psychologist/psychiatrist from Johns Hopkins and it was implecated later in the movie that he was actually Gumb's first victim, not "big fat girl" who lived next door to him.

frick! Now I've got to watch the movie again AND re-read the book.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80520 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 11:41 pm to
quote:

One was found in the first girls throat and one was found in Benjamin Raspels severed head. The head agent Starling found in that old storage building.



Forgot about Benjamin Raspels. I don't really remember making that connection correctly.

So Lector treated Gumb, and knew he killed Benjamin, correct?
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
70546 posts
Posted on 10/31/17 at 11:59 pm to
Lector treated Raspel and from what I remember Raspel and Gum had some sort of relationship so Lector knew of him. But I don’t recall him saying he met him. Starling asked Lector if he killed Raspel and Lector said he found him the same way starling did.
Posted by supatigah
CEO of the Keith Hernandez Fan Club
Member since Mar 2004
90049 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 12:04 am to
Raspel was a patient of lecter iirc
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80520 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 12:10 am to
He just knew from the evidence that it was Gumb that was Buffalo Bill? How'd he put two and two together?

He knew about the moth I believe in Rathspels' head, but could have seen it I suppose when he tucked him away.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
70546 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 12:24 am to
I think he had a suspicion and once he saw the evidence he knew as much as possible. The movie never let on that he knew about the moth in Raspels head. Starling told him that there was something stuffed into the first girls throat and Lector guessed “was it a moth?” And then Starling said “just like the one we found in Raspels head”. Lector sounded slightly surprised when Starling told him about the object so it wasn’t clear if he knew about the one in Raspels head. Raspels head was in a jar in some liquid and Lector said he left it as he found it.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
70546 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 12:27 am to
From what he said about Raspel it seems like he and Gumb had a relationship so I’m guessing he talked about Gumb to Lector a lot and that’s how Lector knew so much about him. He talks about Gumbs confusion about his sexuality and his pathology, it seems like even for someone as brilliant as Lector he had to have some intimate knowledge of Gumb before the evidence to connect him to the murders so easily.
This post was edited on 11/1/17 at 12:27 am
Posted by Major Dutch Schaefer
Location: Classified
Member since Nov 2011
38994 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 7:35 am to
The movie may have changed things up a little but this is where the moth came from:

After prison, Gumb began working in a Baltimore Curio store, where he met and began a relationship with Benjamin Raspail, despite the fact that Gumb wasn't gay. During this time, according to Raspail, Gumb had killed a bag lady. He had been fired from the curio store and stole a suitcase from an employer. While in his room, he opened the case to find hundreds of moths and butterflies. Raspail then ended his relationship with Gumb, in favor of a Norwegian sailor named Klaus. Gumb later murdered Klaus out of jealously, and created an apron from his skin. He took Klaus' decapitated head and inserted a moth in his throat, then placed it within a jar, which he stashed within a car in an impound warehouse owned by Raspail. Gumb had then, over a period of time following the murder of his ex-lover's boyfriend, began applications for gender reassignment surgery. He applied to schools such as Johns Hopkins. However, all of his applications were declined by, as he was deemed too psychologically disturbed. He roughed up a doctor due to being turned down. In early 1975 he was introduced to Dr Hannibal Lecter through Raspail and had just one session. Lecter would end up being arrested for a series of murders himself, Raspail being his ninth victim.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87385 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Lecter would end up being arrested for a series of murders himself, Raspail being his ninth victim.
Yeah, the movie is different.
Posted by Snakebucket
New Braunfels, Texas
Member since Sep 2011
3599 posts
Posted on 11/1/17 at 5:01 pm to
Fun fact. Buffalo Bill actor played police chief Stottlemeyer on Monk.
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