re: OFFICIAL - The Dark Knight Rises Discussion Thread - *SPOILERS*

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Part of what's killing this movie was the massive expectations- I sure wanted to like it

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You lose a lot of the "it's a movie" slack, after all the buildup and trolling that came after The Avengers came out. "yeah Avengers is neat, but it's popcorn. TDKR is a whole other level, it will be Filet Mignon".

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Agree with this.

I was VERY pumped about DKR, and couldn't wait to see it. I had very high expectations, but not unreasonably high...just solid expectations based on Nolan's first two insallments. And this last one kinda failed to meet those. Like others have said, it felt awfully "comic booky," which is fine and doesn't make it suck for me. But at the same time, that's not what either of the other two movies were like. At all, really.

As good as DKR was, it just felt completely different than the previous two. And on top of that, there were things in it that were just really hard to get past, even with some suspension of belief. Add that to the "I've seen a lot of these plots already" feeling I got while watching, and this movie definitely disappointed for me.

But, again, I hope that a second viewing may change some of that, and I plan to catch it again soon.

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The Dark Knight Rises was well-received too. It's currently sitting on Rotten Tomatoes with an 87% fresh percentage and an average rating of 8/10.

In comparison, Batman Begins sits at 85% with a 7.7/10 average rating. The Dark Knight is at 93% with an average rating of 8.4/10. And people nitpicked and still nitpick at The Dark Knight four years later. There's one or two topics a month on this very message board nitpicking the Joker's whole plan to hell.

On Meta Critic the percentages are fairly close, too. Batman Begins holds a 70/100, The Dark Knight holds an 82/100, and The Dark Knight Rises holds a 78/100.

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What I don't get is that why isn't it okay to not think DKR was incredible or super awesome? I think just about everyone criticizing it has said multiple times that they liked it a lot, but it was just lacking. The criticisms of it are more than fair IMO, and it's okay if people didn't think it was the best one. shite, for all we know, Nolan may not even think it was his best in the trilogy.

I realize that these kinds of discussions are difficult to have immediately after the movie's release (when the hype is beyond insane), but like someone said a few days ago...me saying that I'd rank DKR third in the trilogy isn't a slight to DKR as much as it's a credit to the two movies that came before it. They just set the bar that high.

I don't really care all that much what Rotten Tomatoes says but I do see Metacritic as a respectable place to get at least an idea of how good a movie might be. I just hate that you're never ever going to get a 85+ rating unless you're an indie film. If you look at the top rated Metacritic films of 2012; it's almost laughable. It's a bunch of movies that most people have never heard of. But they are indie so they are going to get a good rating. I like every form of film, but dang, critics act like a popcorn flick is impossible to be as good as an indie movie and certainly not much a lot better.

If we are going to talk about The Dark Knight Rises and its lapses in logic, I think it only appropriate to discuss Batman Begins and the biggest lapse in logic of the whole trilogy. The way Nolan presents Batman is of a man who could possibly exist in reality. But if you really, really look at it, you will see that Nolan has created a much more fantastical world for Batman than even the comics did. At least in the comics he made his own equipment, equipment that couldn't be traced. Here, Batman does nothing of the sort. He uses prototypes of machines and gadgets that were put into development by his own company.

Are you telling me that the police, with all of today's tools for research and forensics, couldn't connect the dots and figure out that Batman's cool toys come from Wayne Enterprises? And you're telling me that a board member like Mr. Earle, who was heavily involved with the arms manufacturing wing of the company, didn't come forward after the police chase on the interstate to say, "Hey...that tank Batman was driving...my company built that"? And this is before Lucius Fox wrote Applied Sciences off the books so there was still a period of time where the cops could have traced all of these gadgets back to Wayne Enterprises and figured out that whoever Batman is, he must be someone within the company.

And that's where the process of elimination comes into play. The cops could sit there and go, Bruce Wayne has been gone for seven years. He shows back up in Gotham City and all of a sudden this bat character appears out of the blue. These gadgets that Batman uses come from prototypes developed by Wayne Enterprises. Hmm...something smells fishy here.

We're willing to ignore that lapse in logic the filmmakers created but we can't ignore a mid-air heist which is less improbable than Batman operating without being caught when so many of his gadgets can be traced back to Wayne Enterprises.

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To me, the police not doing very good detective work isn't some mind-boggling thing. Sure, they could've connected some dots and pinned Batman on Wayne, but we also see his best friend since childhood see him in a mask that only covers half of his face and she also hears his voice which sounds like a grumbly version of her best friend. Yet that connection isn't made. I know I'd be able to identify my friends based on half their faces and grubmbly voices.

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But this happens in every superhero movie. Take the original Spider-Man, where Peter Parker - while still in the Spidey outfit - talks to Mary Jane in his regular voice and she can't even recognize his voice as Peter's. At least Bruce Wayne tried to cover his regular voice up with a growl.

And if The Dark Knight Rises goes over your head more than The Dark Knight does then I have nothing for you. Everything about what the Joker does requires him to be a psychic and forecast future events so his plans can work perfectly. Bane's plan is far more realistic than anything the Joker accomplished in The Dark Knight.

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I think not having a performance like Heath put on as the joker may also be hurting people's opinion of the movie. The Joker blew people away and distracted people from picking that movie apart. Bane was damn good but that was just tough to follow because people just wanted more joker.

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This is a good argument for why TDK might be better than TDKR.

Saying TDKR is less realistic than TDK on the other hand is a bad one.

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What I don't get is that why isn't it okay to not think DKR was incredible or super awesome? I think just about everyone criticizing it has said multiple times that they liked it a lot, but it was just lacking. The criticisms of it are more than fair IMO, and it's okay if people didn't think it was the best one. shite, for all we know, Nolan may not even think it was his best in the trilogy.

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I have no problem with people believing that The Dark Knight Rises was not as incredible as The Dark Knight. In my opinion, The Dark Knight is a BETTER film than The Dark Knight Rises. But if you are going to criticize the film, please don't bring up the lack of realism as one of the reasons why you didn't like it. There was just as many, if not more, fantastical plot elements in The Dark Knight.

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But this happens in every superhero movie.

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Right, that's my point.

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And if The Dark Knight Rises goes over your head more than The Dark Knight does then I have nothing for you.

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Go frick yourself with that elitist bullshite. Nothing "went over my head" in DKR. Get the frick out of here.

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Go frick yourself with that elitist bullshite. Nothing "went over my head" in DKR. Get the frick out of here.

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I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was if you think there is less realism in The Dark Knight Rises than there is in The Dark Knight then you are mistaken.