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re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:27 pm to jeff5891
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:27 pm to jeff5891
quote:
lol. Have you read some of the extending universe comics for both DC and Marvel?That's exactly what they do.
But this ISN'T some alternate universe, or at least shouldn't be. You introduce that after your established one is in place. I'd LOVE a Flashpoint movie! But you don't begin your god damned DCU with Flash having no powers and Thomas Wayne as a psycho Batman...
C'mon...
3
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:28 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
im really at a loss for you. I feel like you are stuck in the Matrix and are okay with not seeing the truth. You would rather live in the perfect world and ignore the reality of what is actually happening.
Seriously, this movie is amazingly flawed. No way that I would recommend it to anyone that didn't really enjoy superhero movies. You would have to cut it into two full length films to fix the problems in storytelling and flow.
But it has some amazing performances. I smiled painfully through the Burton and Schumacher films with their cartoony Batmen. And I was forgiving when it came to Nolan (though DK is amazing). But even with Affleck's Batman being damaged and willing to kill to get the job done, it was still the best version of Batman on film by far.
Superman is another story. This isn't a great Superman but at least he's trying in this movie. He's saving people around the world, coming to Lois' rescue, he's pushing Doomsday immediately into space as Superman should, instead of fighting in the city. And there's no Jor-el fricking up the story and dead Pa Kent is more sensible than live Pa Kent.
It's a messed up film but the story is way better than Man of Steel. And it's packed with nods to Justice League and Darkseid. There are plenty of great moments and performances.
It's far from a total package but it's not the worst thing ever. We've had much worse Superman and Batman movies.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:29 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:That's exactly right. You can't start going down these senseless paths without establishing the characters that live in YOUR universe.
But this ISN'T some alternate universe, or at least shouldn't be. You introduce that after your established one is in place. I'd LOVE a Flashpoint movie! But you don't begin your god damned DCU with Flash having no powers and Thomas Wayne as a psycho Batman... C'mon...
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:29 pm to abellsujr
quote:I really need to see this movie bc You said the same thing about stark in AoU and that certainly wasn't true.
It was a stretch and very forced. He goes from thinking this guy is going to kill the entire world to thinking he's a hero all in 10 seconds
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:30 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
He's not killing random thugs. From what I saw he was blowing up vehicles and people while on missions.
For my money, that's a distinction with no difference and one that Batman (as we've always known him) wouldn't dare support.
quote:
I would think that their reasoning for using the older Batman is the same reason that they used the name Dark Knight in movies and have Superman and Batman fighting in the first place. They think that Frank Miller's Batman comics are the best selling and most famous versions, so they're latching onto them wherever they can. They wanted to match their Man of Steel Superman against the Dark Knight Returns Batman.
I get that...but what sense does it make to you? There's no time to breath as you've already started way late in the game...and are now doing so with heroes that seem to have huge disparities between what most people known them to be.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:30 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
But this ISN'T some alternate universe,
Ok. What universe are they building off of, chief?
This pretty obvious something different and they wanted to write something different from the standard.
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:32 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:This is why I think the split is happening. Some people are putting far too much value in the "performances" and the "cool scenes" or whatever. That doesn't excuse a nonsensical mess. We deserve more, period.
But it has some amazing performances.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:33 pm to jeff5891
quote:That's a great question. If they know, they haven't showed us or said so yet. Which is partly why the movie is in disarray.
What universe are they building off of
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:37 pm to jeff5891
quote:
What universe are they building off of, chief?
The honest answer is...no one fricking knows.
quote:
This pretty obvious something different and they wanted to write something different from the standard.
Well, with this I agree. They wanted something different...regardless of whether movie goers wanted that or not. Which goes back to my original question when I entered this thread...when you own the most recognizable hero team in all of comics and your movie is going to feature arguably the Top 2 superheros in existence...what exactly is going through someone's head when they decide different is what they ought to be shooting for?
This entire DCU screams the dangers of attempting to fix a thing that isn't just not broke, but is fricking roaring at the highest levels. It would be funny if it didn't kind of break my heart to see this wasted on these dickholes who seem more interested in their own hubris than giving fans what they want to see.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:37 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I get that...but what sense does it make to you?
I wouldn't have used the DKR Batman. But then Snyder made his bones with Frank Miller's 300 and Alan Moore's Watchmen. That's where he's comfortable, shooting for the fences with the biggest names in comics.
I wouldn't do it, but I think I can see why he would.
And it's not just Snyder. The Spider-Man movies fast-tracked to Venom and killing off Gwen. Captain America did Winter Soldier after one movie. The Avengers went from origin to Ultron to Civil War. These companies want to hit the big popular stories as quickly as possible.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:37 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
But even with Affleck's Batman being damaged and willing to kill to get the job done, it was still the best version of Batman on film by far.
do you mean the character or the acting. Affleck was a great Batman but that character was one of the WORST Batmen on film. He's gets completely played by Lex because of some checks and articles with red sharpie written on them? Are you fricking serious, clark?
He hacks Lex's entire database and finds out everything, but still cant see whats actually happening behind the scenes? He wouldnt realize the entire Wheelchair Wally ploy even AFTER the news reports who the bomber at the capital was?
He acts like a buffoon just lumbering around. Also, when did he become a prophet? How would he know about Darkseid and the parademons to even dream about them? Was the lame flash "LOIS IS THE KEY!!!!" (cant wait to see why) scene intended to be fact or dream? because it is presented as a dream.
Affleck was great, but that Batman was a terrible representation of the character.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:38 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
If the idea with MoS was to evetually bring together everyone into the Justice League to then compete with Marvel's MCU, can you explain the rationale of having a middle aged Batman whose had a tough life and is now killing random thugs? I get that it can be argued that such a universe COULD exist given such and such...but what's the point of having THAT be the starting point for DC here?
This was my point/gripe from an earlier post. I get WHY they turned Batman into a killer given the story-line they are obviously going with. I don't agree with it, at all. But I at least see the rationale.
The bigger issue is that rationale does not fit with the timeline they are setting up AT ALL. It's dumb.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:38 pm to abellsujr
quote:
That's a great question. If they know, they haven't showed us or said so yet. Which is partly why the movie is in disarray
Well like I said earlier this has to do with the WB being dumb and wanting to push JL so fast without setting it up.
If you were actually following the convo, to ask the question why would DC change batman? Bc we have already seen 7 movies of it. A change is good, and makes it more interesting if your willing to wonder why he changed instead being so dense about it when it's presented to you.
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:43 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
I wouldn't have used the DKR Batman. But then Snyder made his bones with Frank Miller's 300 and Alan Moore's Watchmen. That's where he's comfortable, shooting for the fences with the biggest names in comics.
I wouldn't do it, but I think I can see why he would.
FWIW, while I didn't love some of what he did to Watchmen, I basically really liked it.
quote:
And it's not just Snyder. The Spider-Man movies fast-tracked to Venom and killing off Gwen. Captain America did Winter Soldier after one movie. The Avengers went from origin to Ultron to Civil War. These companies want to hit the big popular stories as quickly as possible.
That part I get, but other than killing off Gwen none of those stories literally age your protagonist to the point of aging him out of future movies. To me, at least, it makes no sense to start at the end. Nowhere to go without some serious arse reckoning to square the circle of why a 55+ year old Batman is still throwing punches alongside Cyborg...
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:46 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
when you own the most recognizable hero team in all of comics and your movie is going to feature arguably the Top 2 superheros in existence... Why not just make the same standard formula that everyone has seen in the movies 7times
But that's what fanboys want. The same shite. No evolution of character. Just the same boring standard.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:46 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
That part I get, but other than killing off Gwen none of those stories literally age your protagonist to the point of aging him out of future movies. To me, at least, it makes no sense to start at the end. Nowhere to go without some serious arse reckoning to square the circle of why a 55+ year old Batman is still throwing punches alongside Cyborg...
Keep in mind that this is our sixth movie Batman (not counting the old serials). I'd guess that they wanted something to set him apart from the rest. I'd have preferred that they'd saved "old and pissed" for the Batman Beyond movie.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:47 pm to jeff5891
quote:I fully blame WB as well. It's a collective piece of shite that you have here.
Well like I said earlier this has to do with the WB being dumb and wanting to push JL so fast without setting it up.
quote:There are many other ways to give us a fresh Batman without making him BLATANTLY destroy people. The suit was fresh. The relationship between him and Alfred was fresh. His fight scenes were brilliant. Better than any we've seen.
If you were actually following the convo, to ask the question why would DC change batman? Bc we have already seen 7 movies of it. A change is good, and makes it more interesting if your willing to wonder why he changed instead being so dense about it when it's presented to you.
They should have just worried about establishing a good story instead of trying to be edgy with Batman, IMO. Honestly, the killing, was a problem that was far down on my list.
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:49 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:He is more comfortable when the entire movie is storyboarded for him. But even so, I feel like he failed with watchmen
That's where he's comfortable, shooting for the fences with the biggest names in comics.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:51 pm to abellsujr
quote:
It saddens me that their are DC fans who actually will say they liked this movie because they want a JL movie so desperately. Because they want DC characters to have movies where they're kicking arse on screen. They will eat this shite up and say "the critics are idiots". All the while not realizing that we need something more. We deserve something better. What a sad day for DC, on so many levels.
That's pretty much the impression I've gotten from MOS to today. I've heard so many DC fans talk about this film as if there's no possible way it could suck, long before it was released. I honestly think they want a DC universe so badly that they will accept anything that's put on screen. I really want a DC universe too but I also don't want it to suck.
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:54 pm to jeff5891
quote:
He is more comfortable when the entire movie is storyboarded for him.
For Justice League they should give the script to Jerry Ordway and have him draw out the entire movie as a comic, then hand the comic to Snyder for reference.
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