re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)

Spoiler: although it really isn't that big of a story line feature. Just something that floored me.

The Colburn guy is the one that escorts both Dassey and Avery out of the court room in the last episodes after they are convicted. How in the frick is that guy allowed to do that? They don't have enough police officers available to assign someone else to do that instead of someone so closely tied to the case? That to me was a big "frick you, we are going to do what we want".

Uh no. Perhaps you should go read all of his confession transcripts in their entirety. When they came to his school to interview him the first time, they had not contacted his mother at all. They didn't do so until after they coerced the original confession. They admit it in the interview- they actually have to ask Brendan for a way to contact her at the END of the interview. His mom also states it in the documentary.

There's a rebuttal series on iHeartradio called "rebutting a murderer", I had a 2 hour drive this morning so I listened to it in its entirety.


The problem with "Making a Murderer" is that it only tells one side of the story, Avery's. The overwhelming evidence against Avery is never presented. Anyway, the rebuttal series is definitely worth a listen.

So you are saying that because the mother gave them permission to talk to her son months ago, they can just go talk to him whenever they want until he becomes an adult? Is that really legal?

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Thats probably why 3 different courts have upheld the confessions and he is on his 4th set of lawyers..

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And this is the crux of the issue regarding the justice system. We've been led to believe that the procedures were in place to limit potentially injustice at the hands of the stage (e.g., multiple constitutional amendment; burden of proof; appeals process).

What makes this case so troubling, isn't so much in regards to the whodunit, but the fact that these safeguards are too often worthless facades and the "justice system" is just like any other government entity, filled with incompetence, corruption, and status-quo reinforcers.

Any reasonable person should look at Brendan's inconsistent narrative that easily changed with obvious suggestion, his below average cognitive ability, and the lack of corroborating objective evidence, and determine that there are far too many concerns to establish any semblance of reliability and validity. Yet, our "just" system was unable to come to such an obvious conclusion.

Therefore, it's baffling to see an appeal to the authority of the "system" when the system is showing how fallible it truly is. To miss that leads me to believe that to you're either ignorant, a contrarian, or biased--maybe even part of the broken system yourself.

I urge anybody who is incredulous that Brendan Dassey could give a false confession with valid details to also watch the Paradise Lost trilogy about the West Memphis Three. In that case, Jesse Misskelley, with an IQ similar to Brendan's, also gave a false confession... and there is no doubt, whatsoever, Misskelley confessed to something he didn't do. He revealed his reasons later: in his interview he initially told the police that he didn't do it, didn't know anything about it... but that after a long session wherein he got tired of answering questions he started agreeing to everything they said and started making up things to please them. With an IQ in the low 70's he just couldn't grasp that the police would settle for the false things he was saying. He had a very low appreciation for consequences.

False confessions are real. They happen. They happen routinely.

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The overwhelming evidence against Avery is never presented.

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By now we've seen all that evidence, and no, it's not "overwhelming". For example, considering the fact that the investigator who found Kratz's sweat DNA admitted to not changing his gloves after swabbing the blood from inside the vehicle there's a fair chance that anything gathered under the hood was tainted by dirty gloves and a dirty swab. There's also a strong possibility he simply lied, considering the big conflict of interest in the case.

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I urge anybody who is incredulous that Brendan Dassey could give a false confession with valid details to also watch the Paradise Lost trilogy about the West Memphis Three

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There are real false confessions/interrogations on Youtube.

There's even a documentary on YouTube on false confessions - TheSystem: False Confessions

Voluntary False Confession – a false confession knowingly given in response to little or no police pressure. Researchers and psychologists suggest that innocent suspects may voluntarily tender false confessions for a variety of reasons...need for self-punishment stemming from guilt over prior transgressions, inability to distinguish fact from false evidence due to mental impairment, or desire to protect the actual perpetrator.

Compliant False Confession – a false confession knowingly given to put an end to the interrogation or to receive an anticipated benefit or reward in exchange for a confession.10 These confessions are likely occur when innocent victims succumb to social pressure during interrogation and believe that the short-term benefits of a false confession outweigh the long-term costs of prolonged interrogation. A famous example of a compliant false confession in the 1989 Central Park jogger case, discussed below, in which five young suspects were told they could end their lengthy and coercive interrogations in connection with the rape and murder of a female victim if they "provided statements placing themselves at the scene and incriminating others."

Persuaded False Confession – a false confession knowingly given by an innocent suspect who comes to doubt the reliability of his memory and thus comes to believe that he may have committed the crime despite no actual memory of having done so. Also called "internalized false confessions, these types of confessions are admittedly rare but exceedingly prejudicial when entered into evidence.

Coercion Error – during the interrogation, police use techniques that break down a suspect's resistance to admitting guilt. Police often lie about the existence of persuasive evidence against the suspect in order to persuade the suspect that there is no way out and confessing will improve the situation. Interrogators can communicate to the suspect that the suspect will receive a higher charge or harsher punishment if he does not confess (or lesser is he does confess). The interrogator may also wear down or distress the subject to the point where he believes he has no choice but to confess.

A laboratory experiment demonstrated the coercion error:

Fully 69% of the participants in their study signed a confession even though they knew they didn't do it.

In addition, 28% of the participants believed that they were responsible.

9% confabulated details to confirm their false beliefs.

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or if our jury system

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The twelve jurors in the West Memphis Three case should be taken out right now, even 20 years later, and whipped senseless. They had almost zero physical evidence tying three BOYS to the murders and a bunch of actual physical facts that didn't support the prosecution's imaginative crime theory, but convicted them, anyway, because of their superstitions and Salem witch trial-type prejudices.

Polygraph tests are baloney, which is why judges are allowed to exclude them from their courtrooms.