re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)

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He could have killed her outside or just used drop cloths/plastic sheeting, then burned them with the body

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That's the problem. There was no evidence of that and wasn't the case presented. You don't convict people on speculation. Could he have done it? Yes. Was the evidence presented convincing to convict? In a fair trial without court of public opinion prevailing at the time I don't think so.

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He robbed a bar, threw a cat in a fire at a party, and pointed a gun at his cousin that was talking shite about about him. All these acts were bad and despicable but none of those crimes point to violent rape and murder on the horizon. That's an extreme leap to make.

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You think so, well let's break it down another way..

1st- He robs a bar and goes to jail.
2nd- While on probation, he dosses a cat in oil and throws into a fire. He goes back into jail.
3rd- He runs his female cousin off the road and threatens her with a gun. He is a multi-felon and not allowed to own a gun and gets 6 years.
4th- In jail, writes letters to his wife. Threatens to kill and cut her up.
5th- While in jail, talks to other inmates and brags about rapping women. He even draws up a rape chamber, including ropes and chains.
6th- After being released, arrested for a domestic disturbance with his g/f, including an order to stay away.
7th- Purchased and possessed bondage equipment and porn. Also, kept firearms, which he prohibited to do by law.
8th- Police investigated him for 2 claims of rape, including his 16 year old niece. This happened at the same time the victim was reported missing.

This is just what has been reported. And you wonder why the police might have had an agenda to get this monster locked up? It's not a leap at all..

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Do we have any links for these accusations? I've read them too but only through comments on various sites. I've seen the Brenden transcript but not the rape allegations.

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From the transcript of Dassey's phone call with his mother:

M. Did he make you do this?

B. Ya.

M. Then why didn't you tell him that.

B. Tell him what

M. That Steven made you do it. You know he made you do a lot of things.

B. Ya, I told them that. I even told them about Steven touching me and that.

M. What do you mean touching you?

B. He would grab me somewhere where I was uncomfortable.

M. Brendan I am your mother.

B. Ya.

M. Why didn't you come to me? Why didn't you tell me? Was this all before this happened?

B. What do you mean?

M. All before this happened, did he touch you before all this stuff happened to you.

B. Ya.

M. Why didn't you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn't have happened.

B. Ya ..

M. Yes, and you would still be here with me.

B. Yes, Well you know I did it.

M. Huh

B. You know he always touched us and that

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brmark70816

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You are a part of the problem that the documentary touches on -- you seem like you already think he is guilty so Avery has to prove his innocence instead of the State proving that he is guilty.

Thinking on OJ is the complete opposite of this case mounds of evidence but a couple of items screwed up and he gets let off

Avery most of the evidence screwed up and is suspected of being plants he gets convicted.

Our justice system is so awesome

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He robbed a bar,

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$14, 2 six packs of beer, and two ham & cheese sandwiches worth

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pointed a gun at his cousin that was talking shite about about him.

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Unloaded gun.

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This just doesn't make any sense. If the police or whoever was that sinister and wanted to take care of Avery, why wouldn't they just kill him?

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What in the frick?

I just said they would enlist another party.....I am arguing exactly that, that they were no sinister enough to actually do it themselves, and they weren't sophisticated enough to cover their own tracks. It might have been arranged by only a few so as allow everyone else to remain ignorant without question.

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Instead, you think they killed an innocent girl, cut her up, burned her body and then planted the remains on his property. That is just fantasy and there is nothing anywhere that supports it at all. How do people make this leap?

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I dont know WHO they are. The ex-bf should be questioned and investigated. There is more than enough reasonable doubt here. They don't have to prove that someone else did it to get Steven Avery exonerated.

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Her ex.. really set off my creep alarms and definitely knows more about this

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Agreed. He was smiling, and just gave me the creep vibe.

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You are a part of the problem that the documentary touches on -- you seem like you already think he is guilty so Avery has to prove his innocence instead of the State proving that he is guilty.

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I got in on this thread 15 pages ago. Since then, it's been full of people saying that the guy got railroaded, he's innocent, the police or his family murdered the girl and planted it on his property and tons of other stuff. Then they attack the jury, saying how naïve, mislead or stupid they are. They are basing all of this off watching the documentary. That's it. No research, no reading about his full history or dozens of other aspects of the case. I'm just trying to balance out the debate and showing how misguided and uninformed most of the people that are posting about this show.

When you are a convicted felon with a violent history and questionable dealings, you sometimes have to go the extra mile to show you are innocent. Especially when you are the last person to see the victim alive and the body is found on your property. Avery never released a statement and never said that he didn't kill the girl. He got his money, hired some great, expensive lawyers and said he was framed. I know the police f'd up the investigation and there are a lot of loose strings. If that is enough to give you reasonable doubt, then I get it and more power to you. Given what I have seen and read, with the jury seeing much much more, I have no doubt he was involved and no reasonable doubt that he and possibly an accomplice killed her. It's that simple..

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I got in on this thread 15 pages ago. Since then, it's been full of people saying that the guy got railroaded, he's innocent, the police or his family murdered the girl and planted it on his property and tons of other stuff. Then they attack the jury, saying how naïve, mislead or stupid they are. They are basing all of this off watching the documentary. That's it. No research, no reading about his full history or dozens of other aspects of the case. I'm just trying to balance out the debate and showing how misguided and uninformed most of the people that are posting about this show.

When you are a convicted felon with a violent history and questionable dealings, you sometimes have to go the extra mile to show you are innocent. Especially when you are the last person to see the victim alive and the body is found on your property. Avery never released a statement and never said that he didn't kill the girl. He got his money, hired some great, expensive lawyers and said he was framed. I know the police f'd up the investigation and there are a lot of loose strings. If that is enough to give you reasonable doubt, then I get it and more power to you. Given what I have seen and read, with the jury seeing much much more, I have no doubt he was involved and no reasonable doubt that he and possibly an accomplice killed her. It's that simple..

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I don't know if you're spot on or not. I agree with a lot of it. Not so much this part:

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When you are a convicted felon with a violent history and questionable dealings, you sometimes have to go the extra mile to show you are innocent.

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The state still has to go through the proper procedures to prove guilt. However, there certainly seems to be enough evidence to convict. I wonder if all of these Avery White Knights will investigate other murder charges to find the little holes to poke in the prosecution?

Fact is that it's very hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone did something. As one of the witnesses said, maybe aliens did it.

We have a system which allows for a jury to deliberate and reach a verdict. I think this case had issues, but there certainly was enough to conclude that Avery killed Theresa Halbach.