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Started By
Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:01 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:01 pm to brmark70816
This is the petition that needs to be signed if people want something done. The petition with over 117,000 signatures won't hold as much weight as the one from this link.
LINK
Also, taken from reddit.
From a Facebook page
LINK
LINK
Also, taken from reddit.
quote:
Lisa Hobbs • 2 days ago:
Ken Kratz was the prosecutor at the time my daughter was raped. He first threatened to have her father thrown in jail if she refused to testify. When we let him know that we wanted to testify and have this kid be punished he then looked me in the eye and said Well I think she's lying you know a woman cant be raped standing up. All this in front of his very pregnant assistant and a 16 year old girl. I was in shock for months if not years. Then the Avery case broke and my daughters case was dismissed. We never even got the necessary letter is to inform us that this kid was released and was out in the public. The whole thing just makes me sick. I feel forTheresa's family that all this has been brought up again but we need to put an end to corruption in office. Enough is enough. Stop victimizing the victim. Thank you for making this documentary. It validates everything I knew about Kratz when nobody would believe me and that makes a big difference.
It was in the comments of this page.
From a Facebook page
LINK
quote:
Kratz, who at the time was the Calumet County District Attorney, was prosecuting Van Groll's ex-boyfriend, the man accused of nearly choking her to death in 2009, when, according to Foley's report, Kratz reportedly sent Van Groll messages indicating that he was interested in a romantic and sexual relationship with her. The AP report claimed that, though Kratz initially kept his text messages friendly, he allegedly became more aggressive, and, according to Foley, wrote: "I have the $350,000 house. I have the 6-figure career. You may be the tall, young, hot nymph, but I am the prize!"
At a news conference in 2010, Kratz admitted that he did send nearly 30 texts to Van Groll in hopes of pursuing a relationship, and stated that his texting was "inappropriate." Kratz also said at the conference that he was "embarrassed and ashamed" for the texts that he sent to Van Groll.
1
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:08 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
However, there certainly seems to be enough evidence to convict
What's "enough evidence" to you?
Considering Steven Avery LIVES there, are not the explanations provided by the defense reasonable if he is INNOCENT and had nothing to do with the murder?
Are you saying there is no doubt at all he did the murder? Even though there is more evidence in his favor for innocence than guilt?
The stories do not match the physical evidence. Plain and simple. There are multiple different stories, none of which match the evidence.
There's no "white knighting" necessary for an obviously unreasonably unprofessional and disorganized justice system. The state of affairs in Manitowoc is in black and white, and no special bias needed. A spade's a spade in this one unfortunately.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:36 pm to tiggerthetooth
Steven killed her. I honestly believe that.
There is absolutely no chance it happened the way the state said. They planted nearly all the evidence.
But I believe the one man deserves to be in prison, the other doesn't.
The right verdict was reached in the case of Avery, it was just done the wrong way. Plain and simple. There is nothing anyone can do to change that.
There is absolutely no chance it happened the way the state said. They planted nearly all the evidence.
But I believe the one man deserves to be in prison, the other doesn't.
The right verdict was reached in the case of Avery, it was just done the wrong way. Plain and simple. There is nothing anyone can do to change that.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:49 pm to AlbertMeansWell
quote:
The right verdict was reached in the case of Avery, it was just done the wrong way. Plain and simple.
You know something we don't that implicates Mr.Avery?
Posted on 1/3/16 at 4:50 pm to brmark70816
Watching with the wife today. frick this is good just started episode 3.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:00 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
The stories do not match the physical evidence. Plain and simple. There are multiple different stories, none of which match the evidence. There's no "white knighting" necessary for an obviously unreasonably unprofessional and disorganized justice system. The state of affairs in Manitowoc is in black and white, and no special bias needed. A spade's a spade in this one unfortunately.
You are very obtuse and just don't understand the law at all. The prosecution doesn't have to have the right story. Avery destroyed almost all of the evidence. He doesn't get to benefit for that. State's have been prosecuting murderers with missing bodies and contaminated crime scenes for decades. They do not have to have the murder weapon or witnesses. I have explained all of this before and you should probably research a bit of it yourself.
I get that you are angry and seem to have a firm belief. But it is poorly researched and misdirected. Police corruption and bad practices doesn't excuse other's criminal behaviors. Avery doesn't get let off, just because the police overstepped. It just means they should be punished as well. Kratz is certainly suffering because of it now and will probably a lot more in the future..
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:05 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
You know something we don't that implicates Mr.Avery?
Explain to me why her belongings were in the barrel or pit..
Those items weren't planted there. That's evidence that wasn't planted. They cops or whoever planted it would have no way of knowing he would burn it.
This post was edited on 1/3/16 at 5:08 pm
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:13 pm to tiggerthetooth
Wow lol makes you want to put a bullet in katz head
If I had money to blow I'd pay for it myself
If I had money to blow I'd pay for it myself
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:14 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Avery destroyed almost all of the evidence.
LOL!!!
So he was smart enough to "destroy" all of the evidence including burning the body, wiping every single fingerprint from the vehicle, somehow getting every drop/splatter of blood off of every single piece of junk in the garage where she was alledgely stabbed 11 times and had her throat slit..... but was dumb enough to leave her vehicle on his property, leave his and her blood in the vehicle (the same vehicle that did not have a single print from Avery), a bullet casing in the garage and her fricking car key (how many people only carry a single car key) in his bedroom!!
We've also failed to mention no finding of the murder weapon(knife), restraints that they alledegly tied her up with and not a single drop of blood at the crime scene other than what was magically in the car
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:24 pm to Jizzamo311
quote:
So he was smart enough to "destroy" all of the evidence including burning the body, wiping every single fingerprint from the vehicle, somehow getting every drop/splatter of blood off of every single piece of junk in the garage where she was alledgely stabbed 11 times and had her throat slit..... but was dumb enough to leave her vehicle on his property, leave his and her blood in the vehicle (the same vehicle that did not have a single print from Avery), a bullet casing in the garage and her fricking car key (how many people only carry a single car key) in his bedroom!!
Wow, great points. It's almost like they didn't say any of this during the show. So you're saying that the burnt body wasn't burned? It wasn't interlaced with the steel belts from the tires that he torched? He didn't just happen to have a massive bonfire the last night she was ever seen? Or that the car and his garage, that were obviously wiped down and absent of prints, were never cleaned or wiped down?
quote:
We've also failed to mention no finding of the murder weapon(knife), restraints that they alledegly tied her up with and not a single drop of blood at the crime scene other than what was magically in the car
The bullet that had her blood on it was fired from his rifle. The forensics proved it. You keep saying magically but he had 3 days to clean, wipe stuff down and make stuff disappear. He is a proficient criminal and knew what to hide, but he made mistakes and missed things. Seriously, research this a lot more. How did his sweat get on the key on her hood latch?
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:28 pm to brmark70816
brmark70816 = Katz
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:34 pm to Jizzamo311
quote:
brmark70816 = Katz
Well, if we are comparing each other to people in the show..
Jizzamo311= Brenden Dassey
I'll let you get back to playing video games..
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:41 pm to brmark70816
Sick burn... I'll let you get back to arguing on a fricking message board non stop for the last 10 days regarding a case that you have no involvement with...
Posted on 1/3/16 at 5:41 pm to brmark70816
quote:
How did his sweat get on the key on her hood latch?
The hood latch part is fascinating. They leave out that Dassey says Avery opened the hood to disconnect the battery.
Was that statement coerced? Perhaps but we will never know.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 7:53 pm to brmark70816
Avery should have been found innocent by the letter of the law. His jury failed him. The mental gymnastics required to support a guilty verdict are fascinating, though.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 8:51 pm to brmark70816
quote:
You are very obtuse and just don't understand the law at all. The prosecution doesn't have to have the right story. Avery destroyed almost all of the evidence. He doesn't get to benefit for that. State's have been prosecuting murderers with missing bodies and contaminated crime scenes for decades. They do not have to have the murder weapon or witnesses. I have explained all of this before and you should probably research a bit of it yourself.
So explain to me where the case is so rock solid it can make up for the prosecution's detail of events to be 100% wrong.
It feels like a plethora of evidence indicating the prosecutions story of events is completely wrong is a pretty huge strike for deserving a guilty to charge.
So we've got that he's a creep with prior history with the only motive bein sex via rape, but zero evidence in the bedroom indicates rape.
So zero evidence to back their story or a motive.
All that is left some evidence that has sizeable question marks on it.
You can have your level of reasonable doubt and we'll have ours, I guess.
Posted on 1/3/16 at 9:03 pm to Dr_Tim_Whatley
The prosecutions version of the event is that Avery killed her, mutilated her body and then burned the remains. His motive is he is a sexual deviant with a history of violence against women. He was the last one to see her. Her car was found on his property. Her remains were found on his property. He intentionally destroyed evidence to conceal the crime. His rifle projected a bullet with her blood on it (the police never had access to her bood). His sweat/dna were found under her hood and on her keys. Which the police cannot plant. There are several other details. But thats it in a nutshell.. He did it..
Posted on 1/3/16 at 9:08 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The prosecutions version of the event is that Avery killed her, mutilated her body and then burned the remains.
This is what they claim. So my question is, if the took her in the house, raped her,then took her to the shop and killed her, then drug her out to the pit and burned her, how did her bloody hair get in the car?
Posted on 1/3/16 at 9:20 pm to LanierSpots
I didn't say any of that. I don't know where he killed her or if he raped her. There isn't enough evidence to make a full time line. But I don't need one. There are enough elements to convince me of the crime he was convicted of, murder. I'm not getting muddled down in specifics that can never be explained because the killer destroyed most of the evidence. That isn't fair to the victim and given your version, there would be no justice. Murder is rarely cut and dry with witnesses, obvious motives and perfect crime scenes with untainted blood and remains. Thats just not how it works..
Posted on 1/3/16 at 9:22 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The prosecutions version of the event is that Avery killed her, mutilated her body and then burned the remains. His motive is he is a sexual deviant with a history of violence against women. He was the last one to see her. Her car was found on his property. Her remains were found on his property. He intentionally destroyed evidence to conceal the crime. His rifle projected a bullet with her blood on it (the police never had access to her bood). His sweat/dna were found under her hood and on her keys. Which the police cannot plant. There are several other details. But thats it in a nutshell.. He did it..
They were in his trailer for 8 days getting something with dried sweat on it isn't hard.
And what rules out Scott from doing it? Who owned the same gun, had a criminal history, was a nervous wreck when Steve was arrested, and had his alibi proven to be incorrect?
This post was edited on 1/3/16 at 9:23 pm
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