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Message
re: Marvel’s MCU Rigidity Is Letting DC’s Diverse Universe Have The Upper Hand
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:14 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:14 am to RollTide1987
quote:
DC's lows have been lower than the MCU's lows, but the MCU hasn't come close to matching DC's highs as of yet.
What highs?The Joker was an empty rip off with a great performance by one actor.
Endgame and Infinity War were better.
So was The Winter Solider.
So was Homecoming.
So was Iron Man.
So was Black Panther.
So was Guardians.
And more, but you get my point.
Replace Phoenix and that movie is getting Razzies.
0
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:21 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
The MCU, the WB/DCEU, and Fox have each knocked it out of the park on occasion.
The MCU's strong point is that their guidelines keep their lows from being too low while keeping their highs more frequent, popular, and profitable.
Warner's strong point is that they learned from their mistakes and went back to giving creators the freedom to shoot for the moon. That opens them up to future flops, but it also allows for movies like Joker and series like the Dark Knight. It also means that at times they'll be hitting segmented audiences instead of the general public.
Fox was all over the place, but they rolled the dice on Deadpool and Logan, giving us amazing films. The X-Men films had their highs as well.
None of these studios are 100% gold and none of them are 100% shite. If you didn't find something to enjoy from each of these programs you're either kidding yourself or refuse to get out of your lane and enjoy movies.
Super fair assessment.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:26 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:quote:
MCU masterpiece
This board
Why "this board?" Why the laugh?
What Feige did is pretty much unmatched in film. It was definitely a masterful work of film from Iron Man to Far From Home. That's not saying that any film by itself was a "masterpiece," and UD isn't saying that, but looking at the whole of it...there is nothing else like the MCU.
Marvel's control, execution and quality for "universe building" was innovative and is an incredible accomplishment.
This post was edited on 1/30/20 at 10:27 am
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:27 am to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Was that written by someone at DC?
Ya think?....although I do think that Marvel needs to finalize what they are going to do with the next over-arching storyline. I think the purchase of Fox forced them to regroup a little...but they need to figure out how to marry the Marvel content from Fox into the MCU and create a new saga going forward.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:32 am to Freauxzen
quote:
What Feige did is pretty much unmatched in film.
Yes, it's a box office success. Unbelievable, really. I've always given them props for doing it with their B level characters. That doesn't mean I can't laugh when someone uses the term "masterpiece" with these films.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:37 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Yes, it's a box office success. Unbelievable, really. I've always given them props for doing it with their B level characters. That doesn't mean I can't laugh when someone uses the term "masterpiece" with these films.
You don't think the MCU, as a whole, is a masterpiece of design, work, execution, world-building, coordination, story-telling, casting, writing, etc.?
That it is probably the most thoroughly built universe we've seen in film?
Posted on 1/30/20 at 10:46 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:
That doesn't mean I can't laugh when someone uses the term "masterpiece" with these films.
Maybe as a whole franchise. It's a hard term to bandy about.
My list of "masterpiece" superhero films would be pretty short.
Joker
The Dark Knight
Iron Man
Rocketeer
Those are the superhero films that were closest to hitting perfection, for me anyway. The movies that had me amazed as I left the theater.
Superman the Movie, CA: First Avenger and Days of Future Past are up there as well, but that's all on personal preference.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 12:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The MCU should have bowed out after Endgame. Now we will all have to watch their slow decline and then start threads recalling the good ole days.
Why should Marvel Studios close up shop?
Half you guys say “what marvel did with B-listers(which is wrong)” is special
Now that they have the other half of the A listers back in the fold and they should stop?
Maybe they can keep remaking Iron Man for the 4th reboot in 30 years.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 1:00 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Avengers spent most of their existence overshadowed.
Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, and Fantastic Four were the bread and butter of Marvel for decades.
It's only because of the MCU and then some books getting thrown out the window/deemphasized because the movies weren't studio owned that changed up the structure a little bit.
Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, and Fantastic Four were the bread and butter of Marvel for decades.
It's only because of the MCU and then some books getting thrown out the window/deemphasized because the movies weren't studio owned that changed up the structure a little bit.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 2:31 pm to RollTide1987
Considering Marvel just got the rights to the X-Men and Fantastic Four that's a really stupid thing to say
Posted on 1/30/20 at 3:30 pm to ZappBrannigan
quote:
Avengers spent most of their existence overshadowed.
Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, and Fantastic Four were the bread and butter of Marvel for decades.
In universe, The Avengers were always the A-List team. The X-Men had a nice decade, but leaning into their popularity nearly killed Marvel.
Marvels renaissance in the 00s began with refocusing on the proper Avengers characters.
No more breaking them up, bi costal team, etc.
If anything the Avengers Initiative(conceptually) course corrected Marvel after a decade 1989-1999 of garbage.
The decade where The Avengers IP was mostly split.
Marvel’s true A list is:
The Avengers(including Hulk)
Spider-Man
F4
Wolverine
Deadpool
Dr. Doom
Silver Surfer
Punisher
Daredevil
Magneto
X-Men
Posted on 1/30/20 at 3:48 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:Not even close. The Fantastic Four were the premiere team from their inception through the Silver Age. Stan made a point of filling The Avengers with B leaguers who weren't featured in other titles. That's why Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor were replaced with Scarlet Witch, Pietro, and Hawkeye.
In universe, The Avengers were always the A-List team.
When the bidding on Marvel properties came in, the first to go were Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. There's a reason that the Avengers were left with Marvel after the other studios had picked through their inventory.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 4:40 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Not even close. The Fantastic Four were the premiere team from their inception through the Silver Age. Stan made a point of filling The Avengers with B leaguers who weren't featured in other titles. That's why Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor were replaced with Scarlet Witch, Pietro, and Hawkeye.
Actually right on the money. As The Avengers grew it was important to push new characters who became stars. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were breaking out of the small X-Men book.
But again, in universe, if you were an A list superhero, you became an Avenger.
Look at the history of their roster. It’s stacked with A-list characters from all corners of Marvel.
Because they are the cream of the crop.
Always have been.
quote:
When the bidding on Marvel properties came in, the first to go were Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. There's a reason that the Avengers were left with Marvel after the other studios had picked through their inventory.
Because, 90s comics, but it’s all relative.
What property is worth more now?
In the 60s, Avengers or X-Men?-avengers
70s- mostly Avengers until X-Men was relaunched.
80s X-Men.
90s X-Men
00s push
10s Avengers.
Price is dictated on timing.
Captain America Iron Man and Thor will always have a bigger Q rating than Cyclops Beast and Professor X
This post was edited on 1/30/20 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 1/30/20 at 4:47 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
if you were an A list superhero, you became an Avenger.
The opposite. You increased your status by becoming an Avenger. There is no way that you can claim that Hawkeye, Pietro, and Wanda were A list characters in 1965. Swordsman? Black Knight? Hercules? None of them are A-listers.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 4:49 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
The opposite. You increased your status by becoming an Avenger. There is no way that you can claim that Hawkeye, Pietro, and Wanda were A list characters in 1965. Swordsman? Black Knight? Hercules? None of them are A-listers.
You’re absolutely wrong.
Black Panther
Spider-Man
Thing
Dr.Strange
Namor
Beast(for an X-Man)
Capt. Marvel
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
This is all in universe canon, then now and forever, if you understand anything about the Marvel Universe. The Avengers are the big leagues.
This post was edited on 1/30/20 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 1/30/20 at 6:10 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
You’re ignoring my point (and comic history).
The Avengers were not always the premiere Marvel team. They were at times comprised of B and C listers. Hawkeye appeared in three short Iron Man stories as a guest villain prior to his Avengers membership. In no universe is that an A player.
The Avengers were not always the premiere Marvel team. They were at times comprised of B and C listers. Hawkeye appeared in three short Iron Man stories as a guest villain prior to his Avengers membership. In no universe is that an A player.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 6:56 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
The Avengers were not always the premiere Marvel team.
I associate their current premiere status with the Brian Michael Bendis reboot The New Avengers in 2004ish. The X-men comics were much better sellers at the time. He brought in a few B listers with Wolverine, who were soon joined by Cap, Iron Man, and Spider-Man. I think the first arc involved Sentry.
The Bendis run stayed strong, then the movies got big, and then the Jonathan Hickman run provided the basic template for the Infinity gauntlet (I know the Infinity gauntlet already existed, but much of the movies resemble stuff from Hickman's run). I don't know if this the actual beginning of this wave of popularity, but it's always made sense to me.
Without the some of the current A-listers in the movies, I could totally see the X-men or something else taking over again as the premiere group.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 7:08 pm to Jay Are
People from Phoenix are Phoenicians!!!!!
Posted on 1/30/20 at 7:08 pm to blueboy
quote:
You might lose that bet. Birds of Prey is at least somewhat interesting. Black Widow is just boring as shite, and I have no desire to see it. ScarJo is the only reason that it's happening.
I agree. ScarJo is ok but a Black Widow solo movie doesn’t interest me. She’s just not an intriguing character.
I’m not sure if Harley Quinn is a great character either. Suicide Squad was so terrible it’s hard to gauge anything from that. But I adore Margot Robbie.
Posted on 1/30/20 at 7:28 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Message
Marvel’s MCU Rigidity Is Letting DC’s Diverse Universe Have The Upper Hand by Fewer Kilometers
You’re ignoring my point (and comic history).
The Avengers were not always the premiere Marvel team. They were at times comprised of B and C listers. Hawkeye appeared in three short Iron Man stories as a guest villain prior to his Avengers membership. In no universe is that an A player.
I’m doing nothing of the sort.
The Avengers have always been the top team in universe. The F4 were adventurers and the x-men only started to matter 10 years after their existence.
At times? Yeah their roster took hits, but that’s comics. All rosters of all teams have taken hits.
The Avengers, in universe, is a promotion. In part, because A-Listers such as Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Dr.Strange, Black Panther, Namor, etc. frequent the team.
Think of all corners of the Marvel Universe, F4, mutants, Eternals, inhumans, mystic/supernatural, street level, SHIELD, cosmic, etc- as a Superhero HS Recruiting Class.
The Avengers, historically, pull who they want. Other teams get scraps, or those heroes from lesser teams(Defenders, X-Men & their spinoffs, Champions, New Warriors, MI:13,etc)
The Guardians are essentially an Avengers aligned team .
In universe, The Avengers are in every central conflict.
In fact, if the Avengers aren’t in it, then it’s not a major conflict
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