- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Making a Murderer - Part 2
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:16 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:16 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
You were wrong. It's not that big of a deal.
Lol....k.
Dassey and Avery will rest easy in prison for the rest of their lives knowing that you won the great tigerdroppings debate of 2018
1
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:27 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Discussion is how things change. We aren't going to do anything because we don't live in Wisconsin, but people who can make those changes are having the same discussions.
that's fine. I said "our" discussion specifically.
quote:
Cool, and our discussion doesn't change that, does it?. Yet, here we are.
this is an irrelevant straw man. never said our discussion changes anything about their status in prison.
quote:
Completely incorrect. That's not how it works. At all.
lol, that's precisely how it works. if that's not how it works (whether right or wrong), then they wouldn't be in prison OR would have already been granted new trials or releases.
quote:
It's not irrelevant. You seem to be under the impression that the verdicts in this case are the only things at play. You've repeatedly said just that, incorrect as it is.
What gives you this impression about my supposed impression? Was the it part of the quote where I said "the same could be said about countless other cases"? or was it when I said "I don't think and never have said that this is only about Avery, but his case is the vehicle driving this discussion..."?
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:52 am to VinegarStrokes
It isn't about winning. It's about being correct. I don't care that you were wrong, and you shouldn't either. I just want to be sure we're working with the right information.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:55 am to VinegarStrokes
quote:
that's fine. I said "our" discussion specifically.
Neat. Welcome to the Internet.
quote:
this is an irrelevant straw man. never said our discussion changes anything about their status in prison.
I don't think you know what a straw man is.
quote:
lol, that's precisely how it works. if that's not how it works (whether right or wrong), then they wouldn't be in prison OR would have already been granted new trials or releases.
No it isn't. That's why you're backpedaling. It's still perfectly OK to admit that you were wrong.
quote:
What gives you this impression about my supposed impression? Was the it part of the quote where I said "the same could be said about countless other cases"? or was it when I said "I don't think and never have said that this is only about Avery, but his case is the vehicle driving this discussion..."?
Because you have spent your time arguing that the verdict is the only thing that matters. That is demonstrably false, and something you seem to finally be getting.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 9:02 am to LSU316
quote:
If we are saying this when evidence was clearly fabricated, lied about, and withheld then our criminal justice system is truly a real POS.
Which evidence was fabricated? I've only seen the first episode of the second season, so I apologize if this is addressed later.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 9:05 am to UpToPar
Keep watching....consider the bullet found in the garage and watch until you see everything Zellner's testing revealed about that.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 9:15 am to LSU316
Here are the problem I have with Zellner’s experiments so far:
1. On the blood near the ignition: she never considered that in an unfamiliar car the driver might not know exactly where the ignition is located and might feel around a bit to find it. Instead, she has her clerk get in, look for the ignition, and place the key directly in the ignition. Also, in regards to no blood being found on the steering wheel, she doesn’t consider the fact that not everybody drives a car with both hands on the steering wheel. The lack of blood on the gear shift is interesting, but not impossible.
2. In regards to the blood splatter on the back door of the car: she only looks to disprove the fact that the blood splatter was caused by flinging the body into the car. I realize that is Katz’s theory, but she’s going to have to do more than prove that it didn’t happen exactly as Katz described. This is a circumstantial case all around. There are going to be holes in whatever story the prosecutor decides to go with.
1. On the blood near the ignition: she never considered that in an unfamiliar car the driver might not know exactly where the ignition is located and might feel around a bit to find it. Instead, she has her clerk get in, look for the ignition, and place the key directly in the ignition. Also, in regards to no blood being found on the steering wheel, she doesn’t consider the fact that not everybody drives a car with both hands on the steering wheel. The lack of blood on the gear shift is interesting, but not impossible.
2. In regards to the blood splatter on the back door of the car: she only looks to disprove the fact that the blood splatter was caused by flinging the body into the car. I realize that is Katz’s theory, but she’s going to have to do more than prove that it didn’t happen exactly as Katz described. This is a circumstantial case all around. There are going to be holes in whatever story the prosecutor decides to go with.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 9:54 am to UpToPar
quote:
1. On the blood near the ignition: she never considered that in an unfamiliar car the driver might not know exactly where the ignition is located and might feel around a bit to find it. Instead, she has her clerk get in, look for the ignition, and place the key directly in the ignition. Also, in regards to no blood being found on the steering wheel, she doesn’t consider the fact that not everybody drives a car with both hands on the steering wheel. The lack of blood on the gear shift is interesting, but not impossible.
It should also be noted that nothing says Avery actually drove the vehicle while he was bleeding. That could explain the lack of blood on the steering wheel and gear shifter.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 9:58 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Well, I suppose he would have at least needed to start the car with blood on his finger for the blood to be on the dash, unless the blood was deposited there when he took the keys out of the ignition.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 10:04 am to UpToPar
Or he was just turning the key over to roll windows up or something like that. We don't really know, but it could have been any number of reasons that don't involve driving the car.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 11:21 am to DisplacedBuckeye
They should be released under the tested fact that the defacto murder weapon (FL Bullet) had no traces of bone fragments in it. The bullet, along with the Dassey confession is the entire case.
Basing on case facts alone, the prosecution's case falls short with the new revelations.
Basing on case facts alone, the prosecution's case falls short with the new revelations.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 11:22 am to UpToPar
quote:
On the blood near the ignition:
I honestly thought this was one of her weaker points.....the DNA concentration on the hood latch was a bit more interesting to me. The state said there was no blood on the latch so we have to assume he jerked off on the latch or licked it because there is scientific evidence that shows the amount of DNA recovered from the latch couldn't have come from sweat. I'd be interested to see how they would convince the jury either of those happened.
quote:
In regards to the blood splatter on the back door of the car: she only looks to disprove the fact that the blood splatter was caused by flinging the body into the car. I realize that is Katz’s theory, but she’s going to have to do more than prove that it didn’t happen exactly as Katz described. This is a circumstantial case all around. There are going to be holes in whatever story the prosecutor decides to go with.
Also on this....the stated cause of death was 2 GSWs to the head. That came from the DA and the medical examiner. So if we are assuming she was dead prior to that blood being splattered on the door then it would have had to have gotten there by slinging her body in some way. It was a cast off pattern. So for it to be basically anything else you figure she would have to have been alive when it happened. That could lead one to believe that it was cast off from a blunt object like a hammer. However, if it was that that surely leads to reasonable doubt that a GSW was the cause of death...so the prosecutors couldn't have that because without that bullet in that garage Dassey's confession shits the bed and the whole case blows up.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 11:24 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
They should be released under the tested fact that the defacto murder weapon (FL Bullet) had no traces of bone fragments in it. The bullet, along with the Dassey confession is the entire case.
Basing on case facts alone, the prosecution's case falls short with the new revelations.
That has been my thoughts all along since I saw Part 2.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 11:32 am to 50_Tiger
Maybe, but all that really means is that the bullet found didn't hit bone. It's still possible, however unlikely, that it hit her without hitting bone. It's odd to be sure, but unfortunately, it's going to be an uphill battle in that state.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 11:57 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Maybe, but all that really means is that the bullet found didn't hit bone. It's still possible, however unlikely, that it hit her without hitting bone. It's odd to be sure, but unfortunately, it's going to be an uphill battle in that state.
She was allegedly killed via shot in the head. Explain to me how she can die without the FL bullet hitting her skull?
Edit: On top of the fact that was the only shell casing found in the garage. (Place of death in the case of the Prosecution).
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 11:58 am
Posted on 10/31/18 at 12:05 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
She was allegedly killed via shot in the head. Explain to me how she can die without the FL bullet hitting her skull?
There were alternate claims that she was shot at least five times, and possibly up to 10-12 times. A .22 entering someone's head often doesn't produce an exit wound. It's completely possible that the bullet or bullets that hit her skull were still in there when the body was burned. Combine that with the complete frickjob investigators pulled off recovering evidence from the different burn sites, and it'd be something that'd be easily missed.
Ultimately, that bullet doesn't have to be the bullet that hit her in the head.
quote:
Edit: On top of the fact that was the only shell casing found in the garage.
There were several casings found in the garage. That was the only casing.
FWIW, I don't think she was killed in that garage. I'm just correcting a few inaccuracies here.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 12:33 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
There were alternate claims that she was shot at least five times, and possibly up to 10-12 times. A .22 entering someone's head often doesn't produce an exit wound. It's completely possible that the bullet or bullets that hit her skull were still in there when the body was burned. Combine that with the complete frickjob investigators pulled off recovering evidence from the different burn sites, and it'd be something that'd be easily missed.
Another burn study cited a high probability that the original burn site (not burn barrel) could not reach a high enough temperature to completely incinerate the body.
Which also seems to put another hole in the prosecution's case.
That's the whole point. It's not to prove reasonable doubt, its to show the prosecution's case was fumbled so much that a retrial must occur with "x evidence" made inadmissible.
Edit: I could be wrong but the FL bullet was called deemed the bullet that killed Hallbach by fat arse.
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 12:44 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
That's the whole point. It's not to prove reasonable doubt, its to show the prosecution's case was fumbled so much that a retrial must occur with "x evidence" made inadmissible.
I get it. I'm just pointing out a few small things, because this is the stuff that people like brmark whatever will use to discredit anything that opposes their opinions of what happened.
quote:
I could be wrong but the FL bullet was called deemed the bullet that killed Hallbach by fat arse.
He didn't outright make that claim, but he heavily implied it. I believe in one breath he says she was shot twice in the head, then in the next he says two bullets were recovered. He uses this to give himself an out. Unfortunately, the corrupt bastards in Wisconsin have agreed so far.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 12:56 pm to LSU316
quote:
the DNA concentration on the hood latch was a bit more interesting to me. The state said there was no blood on the latch so we have to assume he jerked off on the latch or licked it because there is scientific evidence that shows the amount of DNA recovered from the latch couldn't have come from sweat. I'd be interested to see how they would convince the jury either of those happened.
The most probably explanation for this is one presented in the documentary. A buccal swab was either mislabeled or flat out exchanged (if you believe in the conspiracy) for the swab of the latch.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:15 pm to LSU316
quote:
So if we are assuming she was dead prior to that blood being splattered on the door then it would have had to have gotten there by slinging her body in some way.
That’s not true at all. Whoever loaded her dead body in the back of the car would have likely had her blood on their body. It’s not inconceivable to think that her blood ended up on her killer and then was flung on the door by the killer inadvertently.
Page 13 of 20
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News