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Message
re: LOST "Ab Aeterno" S6.E9 (Richard-centric)
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:30 am to PortCityTiger24
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:30 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
I disagree...There is more to it than a simple game. Take Locke's explanation of backgammon for example - good and evil...their clothing - black and white. They are there for a reason.
Then it doesn't make sense for Jacob to bring people to the island.
If he is truly concerned with good and evil, then why ever risk MIB escaping? MIB cannot escape without human intervention. Jacob is the one bringing them to the island.
The good and evil angle works perfectly for the humans on the island, but not for Jacob and MIB. Its much more reasonable that Jacob and MIB simply use the concept of good and evil which in inherent in humans as a tool of manipulation.
2
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:31 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
Sayid let Locke speak, then stabbed him, so it didn't kill him.
Did he? I thought he just pretty much shanked him as soon as he appeared out of the jungle. Am I "misremembering?"
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:35 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Then it doesn't make sense for Jacob to bring people to the island.
If he is truly concerned with good and evil, then why ever risk MIB escaping? MIB cannot escape without human intervention. Jacob is the one bringing them to the island.
Like I said, it reminded me a lot of the book of Job.
God allows Satan to tempt and physically torment Job, killing all of his family and taking everything he owns, to basically prove a point to Satan that man is capable of serving him despite all of this. You can look at that as a game, too, but overall there was much more signifigance to it that just a friendly wager between God and the Devil.
FWIW I am not saying Jacob is God and MIB is the devil, but I do believe they represent good and evil. We know that MIB has lied, but had Jacob actually lied to anyone?
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:45 am to Stewie Griffin
Alright, so last night they flashed some verses from the Bible that Richard was reading when he was in jail. From what I can tell he's reading from Luke 4:24 (at least that's at the top of the page). Alright theorists, have fun 
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:47 am to PortCityTiger24
I don't think they are good and evil. I think the whole thing is just A game played between the 2. Because when sayid encountered MIB (locke)he asked him what did they tell you? Also when jacob encountered richard the first thing he asked was what did he tell you? then followed by anything else? they both are manipulating the game. An completely honest person doesnt need to know what was already said....because he isnt lying. You ask later what was said. 
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:48 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Interestingly, Luke Chapter 4 begins with the story of Satan tempting Christ in the wilderness.
God allows Satan to tempt and physically torment Job, killing all of his family and taking everything he owns, to basically prove a point to Satan that man is capable of serving him despite all of this. You can look at that as a game, too, but overall there was much more signifigance to it that just a friendly wager between God and the Devil.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:48 am to darbour21
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/24/10 at 11:49 am
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:50 am to darbour21
I guess you would have to ignore all of the symbolism from the entire show...hell, just two weeks ago Ben Linus was simply forgiven for pretty much everything that he has done because he was genuine. That was one of the most powerful moments of the entire show - and the scene with Jack and Richard on the black rock - Faith. Are you willing to chalk that up to just a game?
I'm not.
I'm not.
This post was edited on 3/24/10 at 11:52 am
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:50 am to tuck
interesting
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:50 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Then it doesn't make sense for Jacob to bring people to the island.
If he is truly concerned with good and evil, then why ever risk MIB escaping? MIB cannot escape without human intervention. Jacob is the one bringing them to the island.
one way to possibly view this is... If Jacob is right, man is good. If Jacob is wrong, man is inherently bad. Why is the world/mankind worth saving if we are proven to be corruptible and destructive?
On a side note... I agree with those that think it is all a game between Jacob and MIB. Personally it seems that Jacob is there to prevent MIB from leaving and is just bored. MIB doesn't seem interested in playing the game. Jacob is some kind of superior being therefore he is probably pretty confident that he is right. In his mind, there is no risk of MIB getting out because he truly seems to think man is 'good' and MIB won't escape.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 11:57 am to PortCityTiger24
couple questions i am pondering that i either haven't been posted yet or i missed in the thread...
1) Once jacob died, Richard seemed to believe Jacob lied to him and the MIB was telling the truth that he was in hell. If richard believed he was already in hell... why would he try to kill himself with the dynamite?
2) What is the significance on the particular dagger that MIB gave richard (Dogen gave Sayid)?
1) Once jacob died, Richard seemed to believe Jacob lied to him and the MIB was telling the truth that he was in hell. If richard believed he was already in hell... why would he try to kill himself with the dynamite?
2) What is the significance on the particular dagger that MIB gave richard (Dogen gave Sayid)?
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:03 pm to alumnus2000
Couple questions:
1) A few things have to happen for MIB to leave the island, which is his ultimate goal. Step 1 seems to be for Jacob to die, which has happened. Why can't he leave the island now? Is it because there are currently Jacob-approved candidates still there? Once all the candidates have been killed, will he be free to leave then?
2) Once a new candidate is appointed (however that happens), does MIB start the game again with this new person?
3) What happens if/when MIB finds a replacement for himself?
1) A few things have to happen for MIB to leave the island, which is his ultimate goal. Step 1 seems to be for Jacob to die, which has happened. Why can't he leave the island now? Is it because there are currently Jacob-approved candidates still there? Once all the candidates have been killed, will he be free to leave then?
2) Once a new candidate is appointed (however that happens), does MIB start the game again with this new person?
3) What happens if/when MIB finds a replacement for himself?
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:04 pm to alumnus2000
quote:
1) Once jacob died, Richard seemed to believe Jacob lied to him and the MIB was telling the truth that he was in hell. If richard believed he was already in hell... why would he try to kill himself with the dynamite?
The writers are making shite up as they go along.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:07 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
2) Once a new candidate is appointed (however that happens), does MIB start the game again with this new person?
Why would he start a game if his goal is to leave the island?
Do you people think that Jacob was just talking out of his arse with the wine bottle illustration?
This post was edited on 3/24/10 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:07 pm to alumnus2000
the conversation MIB has with Richard (in 6x04) and with Jacob in (6x09) he ends with "Sooner than you think". Nothing huge, just thought is was interesting.
MIB & Jacob
MIB & Richard
MIB & Jacob
MIB & Richard
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:15 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Why can't he leave the island now?
I assume it is because he has to have a means to leave (airplane, ship, submarine, etc) and he knows there are people trying to stop him (Illana and the remaining candidates). He can't just run to the airplane and jump on. He is plotting something more than we are seeing at the moment.
quote:
2) Once a new candidate is appointed (however that happens), does MIB start the game again with this new person?
I think the 'game' is between MIB and Jacob. Jacob's replacement will be there to prevent MIB from leaving.
quote:
3) What happens if/when MIB finds a replacement for himself?
I don't think we even know IF he has a role to be replaced. I think he was just trying to bait Ben and have him walk in to the ambush of the submarine crew.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:16 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
For humans, yes. But MIB and Jacob aren't human
I'm not so sure about this. They may just be super powered. Although MIB certainly isn't fully human anymore, he claims he once was and had a mother, and I don't think he is lying.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Although MIB certainly isn't fully human anymore, he claims he once was and had a mother, and I don't think he is lying.
Why?
I thought the writers gave a great clue last night as to Jacob/MIB's motivations.
MIB (Team MIB) said the exact same line to Richard (piece) that Dodgen (Team Jacob) said to Sayid (piece) about stabbing Jacob/MIB before they can speak.
I think it shows that, for all the good v. evil subplots, Jacob and MIB have the same motivations.
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:24 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
Why would he start a game if his goal is to leave the island?
I don't think he would, I know he wants to GTFO of there. But the assumption is that when Jacob's candidate takes over MIB still has to stay. If that is false and he can leave, I'm wondering why he can't do it now since Jacob is dead. I'm assuming here that as long as there are candidates/a replamcement for Jacob on the island, MIB has to stay. Right?
Posted on 3/24/10 at 12:33 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
I think Whitmore wants to kill MIB to take on his power and liver forever.......he too is evil and in that sense would carry on what the MIB stands for.
I'm not so sure that Widmore and MIB are enemies. He may not trust MIB hence the pylons. Widmore knows from Richard that immortality is possible so that may be what MIB is offering Widmore for his service. MIB and Widmore may have just been manipulating Sawyer.
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