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Message
re: Lord of the Rings Trilogy: Disappointing
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:02 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:02 am to OMLandshark
OML: This is not about you and your love for LOTR. It was my personal opinion. If you don't like it, OK. I'm not hurt by it. If it's your favorite movie, that's your opinion, it's not mine. I don't need to respond to a list of questions about it.
You seem like a logical poster?????
You seem like a logical poster?????
1
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:04 am to CP3LSU25
quote:
Borat was a good film. LOTR is one of the best movies and trilogies of all time. Don't ever get that mistaken
+1
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:04 am to TiVoTiger
quote:
You seem like a logical poster?????
Yes, and logic dictates that the length of these films would likely leave less time for more showings, and thus less make less money.
This post was edited on 4/21/12 at 2:05 am
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:11 am to OMLandshark
I've lurked for many a year and not gonna get into why I think it's a poor choice (partly because I like you) to not be a friend. You disagree, I understand, if you wanna go futher, that's your choice.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:20 am to TiVoTiger
That's cool. No hard feelings here.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:23 am to OMLandshark
There were never any hard feelings. Never any animosity. You have your feelings about that movie and I have mine.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 2:32 am to TiVoTiger
quote:
Why didn't Frodo just fly on one of those damn eagles
They had to draw the Nazghul away from Mount Doom.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 4:38 am to TiVoTiger
Fortunately, Tolkien does explain why, in the story, Eagles were not an option. This second reason is revealed in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.
In those two books, there are five instances where Eagles intervene. In The Hobbit, Eagles rescued Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves from the Wargs and Orcs. The Eagles intervened because they hate Wargs and Orcs, but they refused to take Gandalf and the others very far, because the Eagles have their own business to take care of and don’t exist for the convenience others.
Later they arrived during the Battle of Five Armies, turning the tide of the battle for the good guys. Again, this is because they hate Orcs, and not because they respond to any summons, or follow anyone’s orders.
In The Fellowship of the Ring, an Eagle happens to rescue Gandalf by accident. Gandalf had previously asked the wizard Radagast (who doesn’t appear in the films, and is replaced, in one of Peter Jackson’s most bizarre changes, by a moth) to send any messages for him to Orthanc.
Each of the five Istari, or Wizards, had a special power. Gandalf had fire, Saruman had charisma, and the Blue Wizards had complete irrelevance. Radagast’s power was friendship with birds and beasts. It’s Radagast who asked an Eagle to take a message to Gandalf. The Eagle saw that Gandalf was imprisoned on the roof of Orthanc, and carried him away.
Perhaps Radagast could have convinced the Eagles to carry Frodo to Mordor, but he wasn’t at the Council of Elrond.
Later, an Eagle retrieved the newly resurrected Gandalf the White from the summit of Celebdil. The reasons for this are made clear below.
And finally, Gandalf got the Eagles to rescue Frodo and Sam from the violent eruption of Orodruin. This is why some people think that Eagles should have flown them to Mordor in the first place.
Why does Elrond send Nine Walkers, without steeds? Because Sauron and Saruman are both on the lookout for anyone who might have the One Ring. They are both using all the magic and manpower (orcpower?) they possess. All the roads are being watched. Some of the birds are spies.
Riding horses would just bring attention to the Fellowship. And riding Eagles? Why not just construct an enormous neon sign that says in all-caps “HEY SAURON – THE RING IS RIGHT HERE.”
Sure, the Eagles are able to fly safely in and out of Mordor – after Sauron is defeated. Remember the Ringwraiths? The ones with flying steeds? Maybe an Eagle could defeat a Ringwraith in an aerial battle, but I wouldn’t want to be the Halfling clinging to its back. And if Sauron himself attempted to interfere with the Eagles (either the menacing humanoid Sauron of the book, or the “evil lighthouse” of the films), I would place my bets on Sauron.
No one at the Council of Elrond suggested riding Eagles because (a) Eagles don’t take orders and (b) it would have drawn the attention of The Eye and insured disaster.
Many things that occur in The Lord of the Rings are unexplained, or only partially explained. Readers in the 50s and 60s enjoyed this aspect of the book, that it takes place in a fully realized world, and there isn’t time to cover everything. But it’s clear to the reader that these mysteries have explanations, even if those explanations aren’t provided.
In 1977, Chris Tolkien published The Silmarillion, and most of those mysteries were revealed. Which brings us to our third point – what are Eagles, anyway?
Tolkien went back and forth on this, at one point writing that Eagles are just regular eagles given giant size and intellect by magical means. But canonically, according to The Silmarillion, Eagles are Maiar (lesser gods or angels) incarnated as large birds. (This goes against the canonically established fact that Eagles have offspring, but whatever.)
No matter what Eagles are, all sources agree they are servants of Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar (greater gods or archangels), making them quite literally deus ex machina. The Eagles provide help when Manwë wishes them to do so, and only then.
Tolkien’s gods, whether the Valar or Eru Ilúvatar (God) Himself, are the kind who create the world and then sit back and watch the fun, only interceding in the most extraordinary circumstances. The Eagles don’t make the quest to destroy the Ring easy because the gods want mortals to solve the problem on their own. Once Frodo and Sam have completed their tasks, then the gods reward them by (a) rescuing them from certain death and (b) allowing them to make the voyage to the Uttermost West.
But what about Gandalf? Why are Eagles always rescuing him? Because Gandalf is a mortal manifestation of the Maia Olórin, sent by Manwë to aid mortals in the fight against Sauron. So Gandalf has a special hotline to divine intersession. And when he dies, the Valar send him back to try again.
So the Eagles don’t fly Frodo to Mordor because the gods don’t want it going down that way. Makes you wonder why anyone would want to live in a universe with a capricious God, or gods, in the first place.
In those two books, there are five instances where Eagles intervene. In The Hobbit, Eagles rescued Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves from the Wargs and Orcs. The Eagles intervened because they hate Wargs and Orcs, but they refused to take Gandalf and the others very far, because the Eagles have their own business to take care of and don’t exist for the convenience others.
Later they arrived during the Battle of Five Armies, turning the tide of the battle for the good guys. Again, this is because they hate Orcs, and not because they respond to any summons, or follow anyone’s orders.
In The Fellowship of the Ring, an Eagle happens to rescue Gandalf by accident. Gandalf had previously asked the wizard Radagast (who doesn’t appear in the films, and is replaced, in one of Peter Jackson’s most bizarre changes, by a moth) to send any messages for him to Orthanc.
Each of the five Istari, or Wizards, had a special power. Gandalf had fire, Saruman had charisma, and the Blue Wizards had complete irrelevance. Radagast’s power was friendship with birds and beasts. It’s Radagast who asked an Eagle to take a message to Gandalf. The Eagle saw that Gandalf was imprisoned on the roof of Orthanc, and carried him away.
Perhaps Radagast could have convinced the Eagles to carry Frodo to Mordor, but he wasn’t at the Council of Elrond.
Later, an Eagle retrieved the newly resurrected Gandalf the White from the summit of Celebdil. The reasons for this are made clear below.
And finally, Gandalf got the Eagles to rescue Frodo and Sam from the violent eruption of Orodruin. This is why some people think that Eagles should have flown them to Mordor in the first place.
Why does Elrond send Nine Walkers, without steeds? Because Sauron and Saruman are both on the lookout for anyone who might have the One Ring. They are both using all the magic and manpower (orcpower?) they possess. All the roads are being watched. Some of the birds are spies.
Riding horses would just bring attention to the Fellowship. And riding Eagles? Why not just construct an enormous neon sign that says in all-caps “HEY SAURON – THE RING IS RIGHT HERE.”
Sure, the Eagles are able to fly safely in and out of Mordor – after Sauron is defeated. Remember the Ringwraiths? The ones with flying steeds? Maybe an Eagle could defeat a Ringwraith in an aerial battle, but I wouldn’t want to be the Halfling clinging to its back. And if Sauron himself attempted to interfere with the Eagles (either the menacing humanoid Sauron of the book, or the “evil lighthouse” of the films), I would place my bets on Sauron.
No one at the Council of Elrond suggested riding Eagles because (a) Eagles don’t take orders and (b) it would have drawn the attention of The Eye and insured disaster.
Many things that occur in The Lord of the Rings are unexplained, or only partially explained. Readers in the 50s and 60s enjoyed this aspect of the book, that it takes place in a fully realized world, and there isn’t time to cover everything. But it’s clear to the reader that these mysteries have explanations, even if those explanations aren’t provided.
In 1977, Chris Tolkien published The Silmarillion, and most of those mysteries were revealed. Which brings us to our third point – what are Eagles, anyway?
Tolkien went back and forth on this, at one point writing that Eagles are just regular eagles given giant size and intellect by magical means. But canonically, according to The Silmarillion, Eagles are Maiar (lesser gods or angels) incarnated as large birds. (This goes against the canonically established fact that Eagles have offspring, but whatever.)
No matter what Eagles are, all sources agree they are servants of Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar (greater gods or archangels), making them quite literally deus ex machina. The Eagles provide help when Manwë wishes them to do so, and only then.
Tolkien’s gods, whether the Valar or Eru Ilúvatar (God) Himself, are the kind who create the world and then sit back and watch the fun, only interceding in the most extraordinary circumstances. The Eagles don’t make the quest to destroy the Ring easy because the gods want mortals to solve the problem on their own. Once Frodo and Sam have completed their tasks, then the gods reward them by (a) rescuing them from certain death and (b) allowing them to make the voyage to the Uttermost West.
But what about Gandalf? Why are Eagles always rescuing him? Because Gandalf is a mortal manifestation of the Maia Olórin, sent by Manwë to aid mortals in the fight against Sauron. So Gandalf has a special hotline to divine intersession. And when he dies, the Valar send him back to try again.
So the Eagles don’t fly Frodo to Mordor because the gods don’t want it going down that way. Makes you wonder why anyone would want to live in a universe with a capricious God, or gods, in the first place.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 5:50 am to TiVoTiger
It's pretty damn simple as it why they didn't use the eagle. THERE ARE frickING FLYING WRAITHS ON DRAGONS BLOCKING THE WAY.
Sauron had to die first.
Sauron had to die first.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 6:09 am to Lacour
quote:
It's pretty damn simple as it why they didn't use the eagle. THERE ARE frickING FLYING WRAITHS ON DRAGONS BLOCKING THE WAY.
Yeah it would have been guaranteed death for everyone involved, and would have required more people. Seriously, Sauron sees a frickton of Eagles coming, the Wraiths can catch up pretty quickly and probably manage to kill the people riding the Eagles. Even if he gets past those things for the time being, they then must dismount to get to the crack of doom. Tens of thousands of Orcs are on there way there as well, plus the Wraiths are likely to follow, dismount , and follow them into the Crack of Doom. Once the Ring is destroyed the Wraiths will still be super pissed and make sure they don't exit the volcano in time to save themselves. And they would be unlikely to make it even that far.
There is one complaint I've had with LotR though: Why doesn't Sauron have a troll guarding the Crack of Doom just in case they decide to destroy the Ring?
This post was edited on 4/21/12 at 6:13 am
Posted on 4/21/12 at 6:15 am to TiVoTiger
I don't think you call a trilogy with 13 oscars "disappointing". I have the extended editions & have read the books. I can honestly say this is probably the best book to movie adaptation ever IMO. To think, its been almost 10 years since these movies have been made & they still look great. Yeh I will say the Frodo-Sam relationship was a little too much, but if you read the books, that's what Hobbits are like. They're friendly & loving people. Other Than that, I love everything about these movies.
And to the eagle idea, that can't happen. Nazgul would tear them (Frodo & Sam) apart.
And to the eagle idea, that can't happen. Nazgul would tear them (Frodo & Sam) apart.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 6:17 am to Lacour
No.
The Nazgul dont get the dragon things until Return of the King...they would not have been a factor during the council at Rivendell.
ETA: Like I showed in my earlier post, the main reason is that the eagles were largely unconcerned with the affairs of Men, Dwarves, and Elves.
The Nazgul dont get the dragon things until Return of the King...they would not have been a factor during the council at Rivendell.
ETA: Like I showed in my earlier post, the main reason is that the eagles were largely unconcerned with the affairs of Men, Dwarves, and Elves.
This post was edited on 4/21/12 at 6:19 am
Posted on 4/21/12 at 6:35 am to heehaw
quote:
The Nazgul dont get the dragon things until Return of the King...they would not have been a factor during the council at Rivendell.
Two Towers actually. Plus they may have known of those things and thought it was likely that the Nazgul would eventually use them as steeds. The Nazgul may have ridden them before in the Second Age.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 7:36 am to TiVoTiger
quesiton was answered, but do you think a middle earth with thousands upon thousands of orks wouldn't be able to stop some eagles.
also couldn't it be possible that they always had nazgul in middle earth they just didn't need to use them until war broke out. Which didn't happen till the two towers.
also couldn't it be possible that they always had nazgul in middle earth they just didn't need to use them until war broke out. Which didn't happen till the two towers.
This post was edited on 4/21/12 at 7:39 am
Posted on 4/21/12 at 7:43 am to TiVoTiger
quote:
Why didn't Frodo just fly on one of those damn eagles that lifted him out of the volcano at the end of the movie at the beginning of the movie to drop the ring in the lava so I wouldn't have wasted nine hours of my life on this overly-dramatic and CGI-tastic "masterpiece"?
A ring? Seriously?
MY PRECIOUS: Time
It seems like you copied and pasted this from somewhere else.
You don't get how powerful Sauron's eye is. Those eagles would be dropped in a heartbeat once they made it into range of the walls.
The point of the hobbit bringing the ring is that it was so under Sauron's radar that the least of these could do that. That's why it worked. Eagles would be too "loud".
This post was edited on 4/21/12 at 7:45 am
Posted on 4/21/12 at 8:22 am to heehaw
Excellent job, Heehaw.
But even that was unnecessary.
Sauron has an entire Orc army at his disposal along with Saruman and any other magical powers he may have possessed such as his magic eye that can see anything on the planet.
You fly an eagle into Mordor, and you run an incredible risk of being caught. Get caught? It ends faster than the time it would take the ring to drop from the bird to the lava.
Further, what about the idea that Sauron already thought of the birds and had special lookouts in Mordor?
But even that was unnecessary.
Sauron has an entire Orc army at his disposal along with Saruman and any other magical powers he may have possessed such as his magic eye that can see anything on the planet.
You fly an eagle into Mordor, and you run an incredible risk of being caught. Get caught? It ends faster than the time it would take the ring to drop from the bird to the lava.
Further, what about the idea that Sauron already thought of the birds and had special lookouts in Mordor?
Posted on 4/21/12 at 10:26 am to TiVoTiger
quote:
TiVoTiger
I'm with you. They weren't bad movies...but they are overrated.
If they were not based on a popular book trilogy I really doubt they would be thought of as highly.
Same reason IMO that GoT is getting a huge amount of love.
Posted on 4/21/12 at 10:30 am to JombieZombie
quote:
They're good films, but I always expect Sam and Frodo to start making out. Alot of weird hobbit sexual tension in those movies.
truePosted on 4/21/12 at 10:31 am to SG_Geaux
quote:
Man you guys are retarded with the gay stuff.
You hands seen a spoof on SNL or something and now it's cool or something to keep saying this. Never for one second did I ever think about that because it's so far out of left field. You are just trolling when you put shite like this.
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