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re: Is Joffrey Baratheon the most despicable character ever written?
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:00 pm to ladytiger118
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:00 pm to ladytiger118
quote:
And Cersei is responsible for never disciplining her son/never telling him 'NO'. She's an enabler and is a twisted woman herself. She loves attention/power and is a weak woman.
Robert was a worse father than Cersei was a mother. Everyone likes to think of Robert of this good guy who was killed on Cersei's orders.... He wasn't. Robert was a mean and viscious drunk who beat his wife and hated his kids (or who he thought was his kids).
He drove Cersei to what she became and drove Joffrey to what he became.
Make no mistake about it, Robert Baratheon created this war.
6
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:01 pm to CottonWasKing
Joffrey was probably born a weirdo, like a lot of serial killers. Tommen and Myrcella are fine kids.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:06 pm to NIH
quote:
Joffrey was probably born a weirdo, like a lot of serial killers
Maybe.
But what if Robert would've taught him how to ride or how to hold a sword or how to hunt? What if Robert would've taught him how to be a king? Hell what if Robert ever learned how to be a king himself?
Everything Joffrey knows he learned from Robert. The difference is Robert won his throne with fire and sword and proved himself on the battlefield.
Joffrey doesn't have the battlefield so he tries to be his father while in court through being evil and maliscious. Everything his father ever was to him.....
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:12 pm to CottonWasKing
I still think that deep down Robert knew that the kids weren't his.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:12 pm to CottonWasKing
Rhaegar should have killed Robert.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:13 pm to NIH
quote:
Rhaegar should have killed Robert.
Robert was the ultimate bad arse in his prime.
He had a fricking war hammer for petes sake
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:17 pm to Azazello
quote:
I still think that deep down Robert knew that the kids weren't his.
sorry but bullshite.
If Robert would've had the slightest idea he would've shortened both Jamie and Cersei by a head and then marched on Casterly Rock just out of pure fricking spite and because he could.
Robert wasn't the type of man to suffer a slight. He was looking for any reason to go back to war and even told Ned as much.
and yes if Rhaegar would've slain Robert then the realm would've probably seen the best king in its history judging off what we know of him.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:21 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
Robert was a worse father than Cersei was a mother. Everyone likes to think of Robert of this good guy who was killed on Cersei's orders.... He wasn't. Robert was a mean and viscious drunk who beat his wife and hated his kids (or who he thought was his kids).
He drove Cersei to what she became and drove Joffrey to what he became.
Make no mistake about it, Robert Baratheon created this war.
You sound like Cersei's divorce lawyer.Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:22 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
You sound like Cersei's divorce lawyer.
Have you read the books?
Cause if you have there is no intelligent way you can disagree with me....
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:23 pm to CottonWasKing
Yea you're probably right. I still think that it is equally Cersei's fault as Robert's as to the way Joffrey turned out. I haven't read the first few books in a long arse time but I do remember that it was mentioned that Cersei was a terrible mother (maybe by Kevan L?)
You also can't blame incest at all, since Rhaegar was a product of incest and he was supposedly pretty awesome.
You also can't blame incest at all, since Rhaegar was a product of incest and he was supposedly pretty awesome.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:28 pm to Azazello
quote:
Yea you're probably right. I still think that it is equally Cersei's fault as Robert's as to the way Joffrey turned out. I haven't read the first few books in a long arse time but I do remember that it was mentioned that Cersei was a terrible mother (maybe by Kevan L?)
Cersei is not completely innocent not in any way am I trying to say that. However I strongly believe that Cersei could've been a great woman, just as her father is and just as Jamie is a great man (we have now come to realize that even through his faults he is indeed a great and caring man and Tywin has always been the type of man who would go to any lengths to protect his family and their name, even Tyrion). Robert's bitterness drove Cersei to the insane hateful being she is now.
Cersei was weak that was her fault but Robert is still the cause of everything happening in Westeros.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:46 pm to hiltacular
quote:
He has his mean streaks in the book but most of the time, I just got the impression that he was an angry, whiny baby. Everyone pretty much considers him a running joke and doesnt really take him seriously.
Definitely
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:48 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
Robert was a worse father than Cersei was a mother. Everyone likes to think of Robert of this good guy who was killed on Cersei's orders.... He wasn't. Robert was a mean and viscious drunk who beat his wife and hated his kids (or who he thought was his kids).
He drove Cersei to what she became and drove Joffrey to what he became.
Make no mistake about it, Robert Baratheon created this war.
Well that's a deflective bitchy way to look at it
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 7:51 pm to St Augustine
quote:
Well that's a defective bitchy way to look at it
Would you care to explain how my point is defective and bitchy or is it because you just don't agree with it?
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:00 pm to CottonWasKing
Robert wasn't father of the year but he was the ultimate warrior on the battlefield. The love of his life was murdered and he then had to marry one of the fricking lannisters.
I may be wrong but I don't remember any overt instances of him beating cersi. Cersi was in no way some innocent battered wife/victim of her surroundings. She was ambitious her entire life and not afraid to get ahead by any means at her disposal. She loved her kids...that's about it.
I may be wrong but I don't remember any overt instances of him beating cersi. Cersi was in no way some innocent battered wife/victim of her surroundings. She was ambitious her entire life and not afraid to get ahead by any means at her disposal. She loved her kids...that's about it.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:02 pm to St Augustine
The name is Reek it rhymes with shriek.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 8:10 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:08 pm to St Augustine
quote:
Robert wasn't father of the year but he was the ultimate warrior on the battlefield.
No one has ever denied Robert's prowess in war, that does nothing to excuse him of being a horrible king, father and husband. How much of that skill did he teach joffrey?
quote:
The love of his life was murdered and he then had to marry one of the fricking lannisters.
So the frick what? This is Westeros no one marries who they want... You think Ned wanted Catelyn? frick no he married her because that was his duty and he loved her because he was man enough to learn how to.
Not to mention that one of those "fricking lannisters" killed Aerys Targaryen for Robert. You know, that evil fricker that hung Ned's brother and boiled his father in his own armor.
quote:
I may be wrong but I don't remember any overt instances of him beating cersi
It is stated many times through out the series and books.
quote:
She was ambitious her entire life and not afraid to get ahead by any means at her disposal
This could have been used to Robert's advantage if he wasn't a dumbass.
quote:
She loved her kids...that's about it.
Indeed she did, something Robert never did.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:11 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I may be wrong but I don't remember any overt instances of him beating cersi
It is stated many times through out the series and books.
I only remember the one time. When were the others?
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 8:12 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:14 pm to shinerfan
quote:
I only remember the one time. When were the others?
I can't recall specific instances but the one I do remember made it seem a normal occasion.
Something along the lines "You'll wear another one" was stated talking about the bruises.
But is one time excusable anyway?
if I am mistaken about the physical abuse... The mental abuse was obvious.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 8:18 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
It is stated many times through out the series and books.
Where the hell are you coming up with this? He beat her once when she goaded him into it by being a bitch, and she told him she'd wear it like a war wound. Not sure where you are getting that he mistreated his kids either. Most Kings wouldn't exactly be around their kids very often, the moms and tutors would be the ones raising them most of the time.
No doubt Robert bears some of the blame for Joffery, but the lion's share belongs to Cersei for teaching him the sun rises and sets on his every whim.
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