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re: Is Joffrey Baratheon the most despicable character ever written?
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:00 pm to CottonWasKing
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:00 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
If Robert noticed that Cersei was being fricked by her brother in his own castle then Jon Arryn and Robert and Ned would still be alive and the realm would still be at peace.
Robert appointed Arryn
Arryn figured it out
Nice appointment Robert
Robert appointed Ned
Ned figured it out
Nice appointment Robert
You cant just completely ignore cersei's desire to want to kill Robert and put her fricking kid on the throne.
"in the game of thrones you win, or you die"-Cersei lannister.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:01 pm
1
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:03 pm to St Augustine
quote:
Robert appointed Arryn Arryn figured it out Nice appointment Robert Robert appointed Ned Ned figured it out Nice appointment Robert
So it is the hands job to figure out who the queen is fricking???
Did not realize that was in the job title.
quote:
You cant just completely ignore cersei's desire to want to kill Robert and put her fricking kid on the throne. "in the game of thrones you win, or you die"-Cersei lannister.
and you can't just keep ignoring that Robert was too drunk to see it.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:04 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
and don't forget that Lyanna hated Robert also and stated that he would never quit drinking and whoring. Not even for a woman he loved as much as Lyanna
There was one passage where she told Ned that he would never be faithful Its a huge leap to say that she hated him. Before the tournament at Harrenhal she was perfectly content to marry Robert. Wives in Westeros don't really seem to expect fidelity, judging by all of the bastards.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:05 pm to CottonWasKing
No one said Robert was an amazing King, father, or husband. What we are saying is his failure to carry out these duties did not create Cersei and Joffrey.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:05 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
Or maybe just maybe if Robert would have been even half of a husband she wouldn't have been fricking her brother to begin with
She was fricking him before she even married Robert and manipulating Jaime with sex
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:07 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
and you can't just keep ignoring that Robert was too drunk to see it.
Irrelevant. The man he appointed to see it had figured it out.
quote:
So it is the hands job to figure out who the queen is fricking???
It's the hand job to help the king rule. Surely you can't be THIS dense
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:13 pm to St Augustine
Not sure where you were going with the misguided analogy about college football. But i will give you a more relevant one.
If saddam's crazy arse kids decide to plot to assassinate him and take the rule of Iraq by force, conspire with the military leaders to do so, kill him, TAKE control, then attack Saudi Arabia...it's not saddam's fault for the ensuing Iraq/Saudi Arabian war because he failed to realize there was a takeover plot.
Saddam's was responsible for being brutal, vicious, and kind of crazy himself but not for the ensuing war.
If saddam's crazy arse kids decide to plot to assassinate him and take the rule of Iraq by force, conspire with the military leaders to do so, kill him, TAKE control, then attack Saudi Arabia...it's not saddam's fault for the ensuing Iraq/Saudi Arabian war because he failed to realize there was a takeover plot.
Saddam's was responsible for being brutal, vicious, and kind of crazy himself but not for the ensuing war.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:14 pm to St Augustine
quote:
It's the hand job to help the king rule. Surely you can't be THIS dense
quote:
It's the hand job to help the king rule
quote:
help the king rule
quote:
HELP
There is your key word. To HELP the king rule not to rule for the king and most definitely no to try to figure out who the queen is fricking. That is for Robert to get off his fat drunken arse to figure out and in the process maybe he can figure out how to rule this fricking kingdom that thousands of people died to win for him.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:16 pm to Tom288
quote:
No one said Robert was an amazing King, father, or husband. What we are saying is his failure to carry out these duties did not create Cersei and Joffrey.
:sigh:
I thought we were past this and on to another argument.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:22 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
There is your key word. To HELP the king rule
The degree to which the Hand helps varies by King. Tywin ran the country as Hand so there is precedent.
quote:
definitely no to try to figure out who the queen is fricking
Yes, he should figure out something that only one man actually figured out for years. Ned figured it out, but he mainly followed the steps Arryn had already walked.
The entire kingdom suspects nothing, yet Robert should have known that Cersei was fricking her brother? Gimme a break.
quote:
I thought we were past this and on to another argument.
I thought so too, but you keep saying such stupid things.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:26 pm to CottonWasKing
Robert was shitty at ruling, however he appointed two excellent hands. The fact that others killed him and then caused multiple relatives to fight for the throne out of greed and lust for power, the Northmen to rebel, and the iron men to want to seize what they can after he died was NOT his fault. If you want to blame his pride for him dying and not seeing the noose about to get him, I'd listen to that. I will never entertain the idea the ambition of others leading to a war was also his fault.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:27 pm to Tom288
I am astounded at the lengths you and others will go to defend someone as despicable as Robert Baratheon.
He was king. Everything that happens in the kingdom under his watch is his fault be it bad or good. Thats just the way it goes. This war was brewing long before his death.
He was king. Everything that happens in the kingdom under his watch is his fault be it bad or good. Thats just the way it goes. This war was brewing long before his death.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:29 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
This war was brewing long before his death.
Not really
Nobody is defending him dude. We're just saying that he didn't cause his 2 brothers, his wife's son of incest, the ward of the north's son, and the iron men to have at it. AFTER he died.
Was it Abe Lincoln's fault that he was shot because he didn't see it coming? JFK?
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:32 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:29 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I am astounded at the lengths you and others will go to defend someone as despicable as Robert Baratheon.
Considering you thought Cersei was/had the ability to be good I'll take your assessment with a grain of salt.
I'm not a huge fan of Robert's, I just disagree with most of your accusations.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:34 pm to St Augustine
quote:
Was it Abe Lincoln's fault that he was shot because he didn't see it coming?
No, because the guy was standing behind him. JFK, on the other hand, should have seen that shite coming.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:34 pm to Tom288
quote:
Considering you thought Cersei was/had the ability to be good I'll take your assessment with a grain of salt.
I also recanted a lot of that after being reminded of her torture of Tyrion. I made a mistake and forgot about that.
Now do I think that a man like Robert could have saved her? Yes I do. He had power she craved power. She wanted powerful children he had the means to give her powerful children and plenty of them. He could have given her everything she ever desired and he wasn't interested.
Maybe he couldn't have saved her and maybe she kills him but at least he dies attempting to be a good man. Instead of dying a pathetic shell of a man.
This post was edited on 4/23/12 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:35 pm to CottonWasKing
You're saying he beat the Queen regularly, that's not in the books. You're saying Lyanna hated him, that's not in the books. You equate his brutality towards real enemies with Joffrey's killing and torture of animals and young girls. You're bringing some sort of real life issues to your perception of Robert that simply isn't there in the text.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:37 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I also recanted a lot of that after being reminded of her torture of Tyrion.
I know, but it just goes to show that you don't know what you're talking about IMO.
quote:
Now do I think that a man like Robert could have saved her? Yes I do
Exhibit A
quote:
He could have given her everything she ever desired and he wasn't interested.
Exhibit B She hated him from the start, calling her Lyanna couldn't have helped, but she always wanted Jaime. That's why she aborted Robert's child and only gave birth to Jaime's offspring.
quote:
Maybe he couldn't have saved her and maybe she kills him but at least he dies attempting to be a good man. Instead of dying a pathetic shell of a man.
Becoming king changed him and not for the better, but I'll leave it at that.
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:38 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I also recanted a lot of that after being reminded of her torture of Tyrion. Now do I think that a man like Robert could have saved her? Yes I do. He had power she craved power. She wanted powerful children he had the means to give her powerful children and plenty of them. He could have given her everything she ever desired and he wasn't interested.
Maybe he couldn't have saved her and maybe she kills him but at least he dies attempting to be a good man. Instead of dying a pathetic shell of a man.
Why is it his responsibility to satiate an evil manipulative bitch?
Is giving her power for the sake of power saving her? Seems like its just feeding her lust for power?
Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:39 pm to shinerfan
quote:
You're saying Lyanna hated him, that's not in the books
Lyanna's hatred (or at the very least dislike) of Robert is most definitely in the books.
quote:
You're saying he beat the Queen regularly, that's not in the books.
He most definitely raped the Queen regularly. That was most certainly in the books.
Since when are children enemies? If a man was attempting to kill you and you struck first would you then hunt down his children and murder them one by one? Then rape his wife with her children's blood still on your hands?
Now Robert didn't do that but most certainly did not condemn it and you could even say that he condoned it. Now that is most certainly in the text.
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