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Message
re: If Seinfeld Got the Girls Treatments
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
Well, as an insider like myself knows, what we do "academically" isn't really the same as our politics. It's true that some obnoxious professors try to push their politics onto their students from the bully pulpit, but that's wrong in my opinion and most academics I know agree with me.
It's true of course that most academics are liberals, but most academics are well-aware their own expertise in a particular field does not mean they are right about everything in the world.
On that note, I'm now off to grade papers.
It's true of course that most academics are liberals, but most academics are well-aware their own expertise in a particular field does not mean they are right about everything in the world.
On that note, I'm now off to grade papers.
1
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is nothing like a fat/ugly girl making a rich, good looking doctor fall in love with her. especially when this girl is supposed to be a real character who could be a regular human being. the scenarios are not comparable
I saw part of that shite show of an episode. I loathe the show. And that made NO sense. Guys that are successful and good looking do not have sex with girls that look like lena dunham. Ugly chicks don't pull strange from good looking dudes.
Ugly guys can sometimes pull strange from good looking chicks, but that is never the case for the opposite. You can't do a role reversal on something that doesn't reverse. Men don't think that way.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:39 am to BugAC
quote:
Ugly guys can sometimes pull strange from good looking chicks, but that is never the case for the opposite. You can't do a role reversal on something that doesn't reverse. Men don't think that way.
that was a societal point of the show. that episode was just a trolling attempt to get people to react
she wanted normal people to describe reality just as you and i did. she just doesn't want to accept reality, and wants to look down on people for understanding how life works. she's a progressive trying to promote feminist ideals
she failed at her troll job, as many progs do, because she refuses to accept reality as reality
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:42 am to Bayou Sam
quote:
Um, no, it's not. It's a comedy that offers "serious insights" into the life of a certain generational set of women.
It is not a comedy. In order to be comedic, it would have to be funny. It's an artsy drama that was supposed to be a comedy.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 10:59 am to BugAC
My opinions on seinfeld and girls.
Seinfeld
I love this show. Probably my favorite sitcom of all time. I can watch every episode over and over, and still laugh. Are the characters irresponsible? Of course. Are they hateful? I don't think of it that way. This isn't supposed to be a documentary. It's a comedic show and it pokes fun of the societal norms at the time, and the absurdities of the characters. Jerry is sarcastic and shallow, and hilarious. George is neurotic, anxious, self-doubting, and shallow. My favorite character.
Elaine seems to be the more level headed of the group, but is equally as shallow. Her working at J. Peterman was the high point of her character.
Kramer is a goofball. He is not set in reality, and they even say that his life is a fantasyland on the show.
Neuman is your "evil" bad guy on the show, but is just as shallow as the rest, but plays an excellent "jerk".
The show did exactly what it set out to do. Make people laugh.
Girls
I loathe every minute of this show. It tries to glorify the lazy, shitty, occupy crowd as "misunderstood" and they are simply just taken advantage of. Not a character on there is relatable or likeable. They are all selfish, arrogant, pretentious pricks with no reason to be. We are forced to see Dunham naked every single episode. It is revolting. At first it tried to be a comedy, but soon went the way as a drama. However, the "drama" of the show is how worthless they all are. Everyone else is to blame except the characters.
Hannah - easily the most hateable character. Selfish, and no personal responsibility. She causes the problems she is in, and we are expected to feel sorry for her.
Marnie - is a wet blanket. No character whatsoever so no emotional attachment.
Jessa - I hate that hippie bitch. Arrogant slut who thinks she is better than everyone because she's a hippie "enlightened" bitch.
Shoshanna - maybe the only somewhat likeable character.
I've watched half of season 1, and stopped watching it. My fiancee' still watches it, so occasionally i catch parts of the show.
How dare anyone try to compare seinfeld to this abortion of TV programming.
Seinfeld
I love this show. Probably my favorite sitcom of all time. I can watch every episode over and over, and still laugh. Are the characters irresponsible? Of course. Are they hateful? I don't think of it that way. This isn't supposed to be a documentary. It's a comedic show and it pokes fun of the societal norms at the time, and the absurdities of the characters. Jerry is sarcastic and shallow, and hilarious. George is neurotic, anxious, self-doubting, and shallow. My favorite character.
Elaine seems to be the more level headed of the group, but is equally as shallow. Her working at J. Peterman was the high point of her character.
Kramer is a goofball. He is not set in reality, and they even say that his life is a fantasyland on the show.
Neuman is your "evil" bad guy on the show, but is just as shallow as the rest, but plays an excellent "jerk".
The show did exactly what it set out to do. Make people laugh.
Girls
I loathe every minute of this show. It tries to glorify the lazy, shitty, occupy crowd as "misunderstood" and they are simply just taken advantage of. Not a character on there is relatable or likeable. They are all selfish, arrogant, pretentious pricks with no reason to be. We are forced to see Dunham naked every single episode. It is revolting. At first it tried to be a comedy, but soon went the way as a drama. However, the "drama" of the show is how worthless they all are. Everyone else is to blame except the characters.
Hannah - easily the most hateable character. Selfish, and no personal responsibility. She causes the problems she is in, and we are expected to feel sorry for her.
Marnie - is a wet blanket. No character whatsoever so no emotional attachment.
Jessa - I hate that hippie bitch. Arrogant slut who thinks she is better than everyone because she's a hippie "enlightened" bitch.
Shoshanna - maybe the only somewhat likeable character.
I've watched half of season 1, and stopped watching it. My fiancee' still watches it, so occasionally i catch parts of the show.
How dare anyone try to compare seinfeld to this abortion of TV programming.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 11:26 am to Bayou Sam
quote:
It's true of course that most academics are liberals, but most academics are well-aware their own expertise in a particular field does not mean they are right about everything in the world.
On that note, I'm now off to grade papers.
Jesus Christ. No wonder you like the show. You are just as narcissistic as the dipshit characters in the show.
I am technically an "academic" as well, and you remind me of so many of the piece of shite professors who think that because they know so much, no one else can know as much as them. And then they say "I'm no expert (in that other field) but, regardless, here is my expert analysis" because I am awesome at everything
What field are you in? History or literature?
Posted on 3/5/13 at 11:27 am to guedeaux
Never seen Girls, but I am drawn to these threads like flies to honey.
Continue on...
Continue on...
Posted on 3/5/13 at 2:53 pm to bamafan425
quote:
Never seen Girls, but I am drawn to these threads like flies to honey.
Continue on...
I couldn't give 2 fricks about the show, and I am also drawn to these threads. That dude was just a such pompous bitch that I had to post something haha
This post was edited on 3/5/13 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 3/5/13 at 3:24 pm to guedeaux
How can someone be "technically" an academic?
Also nice fail at reading comprehension.
Also nice fail at reading comprehension.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 3:35 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Also nice fail at reading comprehension.
I understood what you meant. I was pointing out something different. So, nice fail for you, dickface.
quote:
How can someone be "technically" an academic?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 3:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Ugly guys can sometimes pull strange from good looking chicks, but that is never the case for the opposite. You can't do a role reversal on something that doesn't reverse. Men don't think that way.
You can do whatever the frick you want when you write your own show or paint your own picture or whatever. I'm sorry the show offends some people's sense of what shows "should" be. Other people enjoy shows that upset conventions. In that episode, the "convention" in question is the rom com genre, and the episode riffs on a number of angles arising from thee genre's conventions, including expectations of people on both right and the left.
quote:
she wanted normal people to describe reality just as you and i did. she just doesn't want to accept reality, and wants to look down on people for understanding how life works. she's a progressive trying to promote feminist ideals
Yes, the show is "trolling" people, like many shows are. But it's absurd to think that episode is about garnering sympathy for her character or about pimping "feminist ideals" (that episode was to my mind one of the least sympathetic toward the hannah character). Sure, the show can broadly be described as "feminist," but it does things that offend many feminists as well as those who bristle at the show's "hipness."
I think your general problem is that you watch the show too ideologically.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 3:41 pm to guedeaux
quote:
I was pointing out something different.
Oh really? And what was that?
Posted on 3/5/13 at 3:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
Or to put this another way. The show is not trying to "preach feminism" to people, or "persuade" anyone of anything. The show's audience is people who more or less accept the "ideals of feminism." In other words, it goes without saying that the show's tilts left.
I watch the show more in these terms, from this basic generic expectation. I therefore do not see it as a troll attempt against people who aren't watching anymore (the lena dunham is too ugly crowd). Rather, as I see it as aimed, in a complicated, ironic, self-critical what have you way, at the follies and vanities of a certain generation of folks. It's really trolling them more than the right. If it's an attempt at persuasion at all, it's an attempt at exorcising narcissism by watching narcissism. Tiny Furniture was more or less the same thing.
I watch the show more in these terms, from this basic generic expectation. I therefore do not see it as a troll attempt against people who aren't watching anymore (the lena dunham is too ugly crowd). Rather, as I see it as aimed, in a complicated, ironic, self-critical what have you way, at the follies and vanities of a certain generation of folks. It's really trolling them more than the right. If it's an attempt at persuasion at all, it's an attempt at exorcising narcissism by watching narcissism. Tiny Furniture was more or less the same thing.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 4:21 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Oh really? And what was that?
Hey buddy. If you don't answer questions people ask you, then don't expect answers from us.
Also, I'm not here to hold your hand in this thread. Try to figure it out on your own since you are a smarty pants.
ETA: since I am nice, will give you a hint. Oh wait, I already did when I bolded certain parts of my response to emphasize them.
This post was edited on 3/5/13 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
You spend a lot of time talking about a show you hate. Seems more efficient to just drop it and forget about it.
Also, your realism/sympathy distinction between Girls and Seinfeld is kind of humorous. I mean those are very different shows, but those two reasons seem false to me. Seinfeld's main characters were all based on very real people in Seinfeld and David's lives whereas, besides Hannah, the characters in Girls seem more archetypical. A serialized plot or lack there of itself a determinative factor in reality. I'd also point out, of the two series, Girls is the only one that arguably has an episode largely comprised outside of reality (if you choose to interpret the episode from 3 or 4 weeks ago that way).
I don't think necessarily Girls tries to get you to fully sympathize with its characters. It does paint a more rounded picture though. I find practically every character to be despicable human beings. Even in the episodes which are largely positive towards a character, like Hannah's dream day or Jessa's trip home, contains multiple parts where the characters do annoying or terrible things to remind you of who they are. Seinfeld always kept the characters sympathetic enough that you didn't completely turn on them. The whole episode distinction is meaningless. There was always points in which their quirkiness/assholery was more generally accepted (which people could get behind), balancing out the odder, more misanthropic eccentricities. I'd argue Girls has done way, way, way more to make put it's character in a less sympathetic light than Seinfeld ever did.
Also, your realism/sympathy distinction between Girls and Seinfeld is kind of humorous. I mean those are very different shows, but those two reasons seem false to me. Seinfeld's main characters were all based on very real people in Seinfeld and David's lives whereas, besides Hannah, the characters in Girls seem more archetypical. A serialized plot or lack there of itself a determinative factor in reality. I'd also point out, of the two series, Girls is the only one that arguably has an episode largely comprised outside of reality (if you choose to interpret the episode from 3 or 4 weeks ago that way).
I don't think necessarily Girls tries to get you to fully sympathize with its characters. It does paint a more rounded picture though. I find practically every character to be despicable human beings. Even in the episodes which are largely positive towards a character, like Hannah's dream day or Jessa's trip home, contains multiple parts where the characters do annoying or terrible things to remind you of who they are. Seinfeld always kept the characters sympathetic enough that you didn't completely turn on them. The whole episode distinction is meaningless. There was always points in which their quirkiness/assholery was more generally accepted (which people could get behind), balancing out the odder, more misanthropic eccentricities. I'd argue Girls has done way, way, way more to make put it's character in a less sympathetic light than Seinfeld ever did.
This post was edited on 3/5/13 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:41 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
You can do whatever the frick you want when you write your own show or paint your own picture or whatever. I'm sorry the show offends some people's sense of what shows "should" be.
this is only because it is supposed to be a show that is "real" and is good as showing reality on film
if it gets something this big wrong, then it's not close to being accurate with regards to reality, and that criticism isn't warranted
quote:
In that episode, the "convention" in question is the rom com genre, and the episode riffs on a number of angles arising from thee genre's conventions, including expectations of people on both right and the left.
i'm waiting on the unicorn episode, personally, since we're just creating shite that cannot exist in reality as a reflection of reality
quote:
Sure, the show can broadly be described as "feminist," but it does things that offend many feminists as well
like what? honest question
the biggest fans of this show are the nazi feminists, especially with the "ugly nudity" angle
quote:
I think your general problem is that you watch the show too ideologically.
well if it's not based on reality, it's not based in ideology, and it's not funny, why does anybody watch it?
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:44 pm to guedeaux
quote:
What field are you in? History or literature?
He's probably in one of the numerous "studies" fields that have become too numerous to name within the past 30 years. I'm sure his speacialty involves examining some sort of cultural phenomena through a "class, gender, or race" prism. These types of "academics" are quite often the worst around.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:47 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
The show's audience is people who more or less accept the "ideals of feminism." In other words, it goes without saying that the show's tilts left.
well it's hard to argue it's not "left" due to the fact that it's your typical young/urban people celebratory show
that demo, and the demo who wants to watch that type of show, will almost assuredly "lean left" for a number of reasons
quote:
It's really trolling them more than the right
to an extent, but it certainly wastes a lot of time trying to rehabilitate/excuse their behavior
like i said earlier in this thread, it was hilarious to watch marnie be a voice of reason and criticize jessa, and then ALMOST IMMEDIATELY go fricking batshit crazy. like marnie's comments were so dead on i thought we were watching a parody movie when the characters make comments that directly mock the genre
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:48 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
You spend a lot of time talking about a show you hate. Seems more efficient to just drop it and forget about it.
Posted on 3/5/13 at 5:51 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
I'd also point out, of the two series, Girls is the only one that arguably has an episode largely comprised outside of reality (if you choose to interpret the episode from 3 or 4 weeks ago that way).
i have to say i do love that this episode was so bad, people are legitimately saying that it's a fantasy episode
quote:
I'd argue Girls has done way, way, way more to make put it's character in a less sympathetic light than Seinfeld ever did.
the closest you could come to describing sympathy for a seinfeld character would be george's parents
and they weren't THAT bad
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