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rebelrouser
Furman Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
2729 posts

Godfather II questions
1. When the Rosatos try to kill Frank Pantangelli, they say Michael Corleone says hello but the hit was ordered by Roth. Was it a staged hit w/ the police officer to get Pantangelli to turn on the Corleones? Seems too elaborate.
2. Did the senator really kill the prostitute or was it a set up to make him beholden to the Corleones?


H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47754 posts

re: Godfather II questions
1) I don’t think the cop coming in was part of it but I assume the plan was to not kill Frank and make him think Michael turned on him
2) When Tom Hagen is talking to Sen Geary in the room with the dead girl, at one point they show Al Neri in the next room, Hagen gives him a GTFO look, so clearly they had Neri drug the Sen and kill the girl
This post was edited on 3/5 at 7:17 pm


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170
Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
14571 posts

re: Godfather II questions
1) I think they really wanted to kill him but having him think it was Michael made for a nice backup plan in case he lived. As you said, a little elaborate but you just have to roll with it.

2) Neri killed the hooker after she presumably drugged the Senator.


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Jack Ruby
Central Arkansas Fan
Member since Apr 2014
6156 posts

re: Godfather II questions
The Pentanglli hit was staged to look like Michael betrayed Frankie after saying to go meet with the Rozatos and settle the beef so the Cuba move goes smoothly.

.. The police officer was an unforseen flaw that actually kept Frankie alive. He snooped in because he knew the bartender and then saw something was up.

Frankie gets pissed still thinking he was set up by Michael, then flips to the FBI.


2. No the Senator did not kill tbe prostitute. He says he couldn't remember anything and only remembers them playing tie-up and kinky games

Was he probably drunk and maybe stoned probably,.... But the whore house was a Nevada place that Fredo owned.

Obviously the Corelone's knew he frequented the joint and when Geary pissed off Michael and they needed extra political clout for the Cuba investment, they set up Geary to think he killed the girl and then they owned him.


rebelrouser
Furman Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
2729 posts

re: Godfather II questions
Figured it out w/ google. Danny Aeillo ad libbed the line and Copolla decided to keep it in:

michael corleone says hello



Tchefuncte Tiger
Bat'n Rudge
Member since Oct 2004
31523 posts

re: Godfather II questions
quote:

Did the senator really kill the prostitute or was it a set up to make him beholden to the Corleones?


No. Al Neri killed the prostitute, but made it look like the senator had killed her.


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40
Havoc
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2015
5084 posts

re: Godfather II questions
Why'd they keep it in if the true intent was to kill him? Why would you bother feeding misinformation to someone you were in the process of killing? I could understand if it was true info just as a final frick you to the guy you were killing, but why deceive someone who would be dead in a few minutes?


Jack Ruby
Central Arkansas Fan
Member since Apr 2014
6156 posts

re: Godfather II questions
First it's an incredible line...and second, Aiello/Rozato was probably saying just to frick with Frankie regardless...remember the two parties dispized each other...they had been in a turf war ever since Clemenza died.

The fact still rememains the same, Pentangelli got pissed be as he thought alike betrayed him
This post was edited on 3/6 at 7:47 pm


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21
supatigah
LA-Lafayette Fan
Sheriff of Banned Town
Member since Mar 2004
74084 posts

re: Godfather II questions
The hit was botched, but the line remains
Never realized that was Aiello before

Geary was set up, he didn’t kill anyone


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Backinthe615
Member since Nov 2011
5242 posts

re: Godfather II questions
Controversy aside, this stuntman had some stones.


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60
scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
24819 posts

re: Godfather II questions
Danny Aiello, who I met one time ... was the one who tried to strangle Frank.

There was always the idea that they meant to kill Frank to set-off Michael but, of course, things changed when the Cop walked-in. No doubt Hyman was behind it all because he was pissed about the killing of Bugsey ... errrr, the guy shot in the eye in Vegas.

The Senator was set-up ... Neri killed her. Remember, they later revealed that the girl had no known family so no one would miss her and they also knew that the Senator and her had played rough before.
This post was edited on 3/6 at 9:24 pm


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Spock's Eyebrow
LSU Fan
Member since May 2012
11266 posts

re: Godfather II questions
quote:

Why'd they keep it in if the true intent was to kill him? Why would you bother feeding misinformation to someone you were in the process of killing? I could understand if it was true info just as a final frick you to the guy you were killing, but why deceive someone who would be dead in a few minutes?


The shock of finding out that someone you think has your back has betrayed you can drain the energy out of some people.


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20
randomways
Vanderbilt Fan
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
10991 posts

re: Godfather II questions
To the modern (well, more modern) eye, one of the very, very few problematic aspects of the first two Godfather's was the mythologizing of this particular Mafia family. It was deliberate, obviously, and indispensable to the epic nature of the movies, but it does lead to questions like #2, where we see even the generally-affable Tom Hagen party to something pretty much unforgivable -- murdering someone who wasn't a gangster in order to achieve a goal. It's almost jarring in the way it contrasts with the rest of the movies where hits and criminal activities are primarily perpetuated against people that the movies make no bones about the fact that they deserved whatever happened to them.

But, as people have said, it was made absolutely clear that Michael ordered the killing of the prostitute to get control of the Senator who had just defied him and made no secret of the fact that he disliked Michael (and Italians, for that matter) and intended to make Michael's life trying to get a stake in Nevada difficult.
This post was edited on 3/6 at 11:55 pm


scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
24819 posts

re: Godfather II questions
quote:

murdering someone who wasn't a gangster in order to achieve a goal.


But you have to remember ... at the time mafia controlled whores were considered disposable, spreaders of disease and generally dregs of society. They were despised as despicable human beings selling their bodies ... especially by the wives of their clientele.

So, in that frame, the whore's murder was no great loss. Her murder was a necessary evil.

Wealthy manipulators and governments have used prostitues for every kind of blackmail and spy game since the beginning of time.

She was a instrument used against corrupt politician so, in essence, she was considered an acceptable loss ... a battlefield casualty if you will.


randomways
Vanderbilt Fan
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
10991 posts

re: Godfather II questions
quote:


But you have to remember ... at the time mafia controlled whores were considered disposable, spreaders of disease and generally dregs of society. They were despised as despicable human beings selling their bodies ... especially by the wives of their clientele.

So, in that frame, the whore's murder was no great loss. Her murder was a necessary evil.

Wealthy manipulators and governments have used prostitues for every kind of blackmail and spy game since the beginning of time.

She was a instrument used against corrupt politician so, in essence, she was considered an acceptable loss ... a battlefield casualty if you will.


It is quite true I'm looking at it with modern eyes. I can't even say how it would have been regarded by the movie-going public in the '70s without asking my dad, and I'm willing to bet my dad regards any day when his first-born son doesn't call him up to ask what people thought about killing hookers in the 1970s as a good day.

On a strictly literal level, though, it still sticks out in the narrative. Unless I'm missing something, and I sometimes feel like I'm forgetting something obvious in these discussions, the Corleones didn't perpetuate violence against anyone who wasn't a confirmed organized crime figure. The closest they came was a horse's head in a movie producer's bed (and given the state of Golden Age Hollywood, I wouldn't automatically assume the guy wasn't involved in organized crime.) You're correct regarding their attitudes (I think -- I wasn't there, but your observations sound about right.) It just seems that it's a really comparatively dark place for the movie to go when contrasted with the rest of the violence. It just kinda surprised me a little the first time I saw the movie as a teen that a character like Tom Hagen, who comes across as quite likeable as a nonviolent but completely loyal adopted member of the Family, played point on that particular scheme. Reminds you just how dangerous these people really are.


Jimmydatiger
LSU Fan
North Endzone
Member since Dec 2011
254 posts

re: Godfather II questions
There is a deleted scene and on you tube where Tom, Santino and the Don discuss what to do wthat th Woltz. They are trying to gauge how bad a guy he is and thus how far they want to go in his punishment or encouragement . So Vito believed in justice. Like the undertakers daughter is alive so the guys who beat her cant be killed because as Vito says that wouldn't be justice. With Woltz he's not a bad enough guy to kill but he has refused their request and he is sort of a bad guy ( which they discuss in the deleted scene) so instead of killing him they decide to kill his horse. The decision isn't in the deleted scene but you can almost envision the Don,Sonny and Tom being all delighted with their own cleverness when they hit on the idea to kill the horse.


extremetigerfanatic
LSU Fan
Denham Springs
Member since Oct 2003
3962 posts

re: Godfather II questions
There is the whole story that Michael tells Kay at the wedding where the Don told that movie producer to let Johnny out of his contract, told him his signature or his brains would be on the contract.

That dude wasn't mafia that we know about


Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
35137 posts

re: Godfather II questions
The Corleone family wa always willing to do what was necessary. Don Vito realized that keeping things in purportion were in the best interest of the family. Society will put up with certain things and not others.

Don Vito's relationship with Luca Brazi is described in more detail in the books. Luca is absolutely loyal to Don Vito because he helpe dhim out ealry on when Luca got in trouble for doing things nobody else would tollerate. If I remember correctly it was incinuated that he like young girls (very young apparently).

They kept a cool facade, but were always cold calculating ganagsters that would get as nasty as they needed. It was just better business not to get unneccesarrily nasty.


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21
KiwiHead
LSU Fan
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
6589 posts

re: Godfather II questions
I'm thinking that Rozzato gets duped by Roth that Michael Corleone wants Frank Pantangelli whacked, the comment was for Frank's ears only to take with him to death. It's about that time that Michael starts to figure out that Roth is truly his enemy.

Al Neri killed the prostitute so as to compromise the Senator. Al did all of the important hits.


Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
35137 posts

re: Godfather II questions
quote:

It's about that time that Michael starts to figure out that Roth is truly his enemy.


Michael already knew who was behind it all. His discussion with Frank P in his childhood home clears that up.


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