Godfather II questions

1) I don’t think the cop coming in was part of it but I assume the plan was to not kill Frank and make him think Michael turned on him
2) When Tom Hagen is talking to Sen Geary in the room with the dead girl, at one point they show Al Neri in the next room, Hagen gives him a GTFO look, so clearly they had Neri drug the Sen and kill the girl

The Pentanglli hit was staged to look like Michael betrayed Frankie after saying to go meet with the Rozatos and settle the beef so the Cuba move goes smoothly.

.. The police officer was an unforseen flaw that actually kept Frankie alive. He snooped in because he knew the bartender and then saw something was up.

Frankie gets pissed still thinking he was set up by Michael, then flips to the FBI.


2. No the Senator did not kill tbe prostitute. He says he couldn't remember anything and only remembers them playing tie-up and kinky games

Was he probably drunk and maybe stoned probably,.... But the whore house was a Nevada place that Fredo owned.

Obviously the Corelone's knew he frequented the joint and when Geary pissed off Michael and they needed extra political clout for the Cuba investment, they set up Geary to think he killed the girl and then they owned him.

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Did the senator really kill the prostitute or was it a set up to make him beholden to the Corleones?

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No. Al Neri killed the prostitute, but made it look like the senator had killed her.

First it's an incredible line...and second, Aiello/Rozato was probably saying just to frick with Frankie regardless...remember the two parties dispized each other...they had been in a turf war ever since Clemenza died.

The fact still rememains the same, Pentangelli got pissed be as he thought alike betrayed him

Controversy aside, this stuntman had some stones.

Danny Aiello, who I met one time ... was the one who tried to strangle Frank.

There was always the idea that they meant to kill Frank to set-off Michael but, of course, things changed when the Cop walked-in. No doubt Hyman was behind it all because he was pissed about the killing of Bugsey ... errrr, the guy shot in the eye in Vegas.

The Senator was set-up ... Neri killed her. Remember, they later revealed that the girl had no known family so no one would miss her and they also knew that the Senator and her had played rough before.

To the modern (well, more modern) eye, one of the very, very few problematic aspects of the first two Godfather's was the mythologizing of this particular Mafia family. It was deliberate, obviously, and indispensable to the epic nature of the movies, but it does lead to questions like #2, where we see even the generally-affable Tom Hagen party to something pretty much unforgivable -- murdering someone who wasn't a gangster in order to achieve a goal. It's almost jarring in the way it contrasts with the rest of the movies where hits and criminal activities are primarily perpetuated against people that the movies make no bones about the fact that they deserved whatever happened to them.

But, as people have said, it was made absolutely clear that Michael ordered the killing of the prostitute to get control of the Senator who had just defied him and made no secret of the fact that he disliked Michael (and Italians, for that matter) and intended to make Michael's life trying to get a stake in Nevada difficult.

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But you have to remember ... at the time mafia controlled whores were considered disposable, spreaders of disease and generally dregs of society. They were despised as despicable human beings selling their bodies ... especially by the wives of their clientele.

So, in that frame, the whore's murder was no great loss. Her murder was a necessary evil.

Wealthy manipulators and governments have used prostitues for every kind of blackmail and spy game since the beginning of time.

She was a instrument used against corrupt politician so, in essence, she was considered an acceptable loss ... a battlefield casualty if you will.

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It is quite true I'm looking at it with modern eyes. I can't even say how it would have been regarded by the movie-going public in the '70s without asking my dad, and I'm willing to bet my dad regards any day when his first-born son doesn't call him up to ask what people thought about killing hookers in the 1970s as a good day.

On a strictly literal level, though, it still sticks out in the narrative. Unless I'm missing something, and I sometimes feel like I'm forgetting something obvious in these discussions, the Corleones didn't perpetuate violence against anyone who wasn't a confirmed organized crime figure. The closest they came was a horse's head in a movie producer's bed (and given the state of Golden Age Hollywood, I wouldn't automatically assume the guy wasn't involved in organized crime.) You're correct regarding their attitudes (I think -- I wasn't there, but your observations sound about right.) It just seems that it's a really comparatively dark place for the movie to go when contrasted with the rest of the violence. It just kinda surprised me a little the first time I saw the movie as a teen that a character like Tom Hagen, who comes across as quite likeable as a nonviolent but completely loyal adopted member of the Family, played point on that particular scheme. Reminds you just how dangerous these people really are.

There is the whole story that Michael tells Kay at the wedding where the Don told that movie producer to let Johnny out of his contract, told him his signature or his brains would be on the contract.

That dude wasn't mafia that we know about

I'm thinking that Rozzato gets duped by Roth that Michael Corleone wants Frank Pantangelli whacked, the comment was for Frank's ears only to take with him to death. It's about that time that Michael starts to figure out that Roth is truly his enemy.

Al Neri killed the prostitute so as to compromise the Senator. Al did all of the important hits.