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re: Dinosaur 13 (CNN documentary about Sue the largest T-Rex every found)
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:13 pm to mizzoukills
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:13 pm to mizzoukills
It was a very interesting show. I've seen Sue in Chicago but never knew the crazy story that got her there. At least it was purchased by a museum like that than some private collector so people can go see it
1
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:20 pm to tigger1
quote:
SoGaFan you better go read the story and where the bones in most museums come from...
I have an advanced degree in archaeology. I know exactly where most museum stuff comes from, and it isn't a pretty picture, even for ones with very good reputations. Provenance is always a bit tricky. I never said that Larson was the bad guy, nor did I say that the government handled it well. I just don't particularly think that anything such as important fossils and/or artifacts should belong to individuals out of the public eye. They are all a part of our shared history, and should be available for scholarship.
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:25 pm to SoGaFan
They were going to put the Rex in their museum in South Dakota, weren't they? I agree with you that things like this should be on public display, but I though that's what the Larson brothers were planning to do. Reminds me of Indiana Jones, "It belongs in a museum!" "So do you"
This post was edited on 12/15/14 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:42 pm to BamaSaint
SoGaFan
They built their museum around the T-Rex bones. Their plan was to showcase to the world Sue's bones in a local museum where Sue was found. And to meet operational costs they sold other bones to museums and collectors around the world which is not a crime. Otherwise, how would they be able to afford to keep the museum open.
How is Sue being on display in an actual field museum in South Dakota any different than Sue being on display at the Field Museum in Chicago?
You're acting like the Field Museum in Chicago deserved the bones more than the scientists who actually found the bones and attempted to display them in their museum.
Explain please...
They built their museum around the T-Rex bones. Their plan was to showcase to the world Sue's bones in a local museum where Sue was found. And to meet operational costs they sold other bones to museums and collectors around the world which is not a crime. Otherwise, how would they be able to afford to keep the museum open.
How is Sue being on display in an actual field museum in South Dakota any different than Sue being on display at the Field Museum in Chicago?
You're acting like the Field Museum in Chicago deserved the bones more than the scientists who actually found the bones and attempted to display them in their museum.
Explain please...
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 10:26 am
Posted on 12/15/14 at 9:51 pm to mizzoukills
I think you replied to the wrong post. I think they should have been able to keep the bones in their museum in South Dakota. But, since the government won and it went to auction, it did go to about the best place it could have gone under the circumstances
Posted on 12/15/14 at 10:08 pm to BamaSaint
quote:
At least it was purchased by a museum like that than some private collector so people can go see it
I agree
quote:
The master bedroom is particularly lavish – it’s adorned in platinum, and has wall art made of meteoric stone and (wait for it) the bones of a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 8:29 am to mizzoukills
Watched again last night. So many things wrong, and the fact that it's CNN, makes me believe we are not getting the full story, and that it's being portrayed in the light most favorable to the institute. Got pissed again though.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 10:25 am to AlxTgr
List the inconsistencies... 
Posted on 12/16/14 at 10:33 am to mizzoukills
Caught the second half of it the other night while flipping channels, then watched it all on Sunday. It especially drew my interest because we went to Chicago last year and visited the Field Museum. Sue is just awe-inspiring. What a powerful story - the government just fricked those people over royally. Determining that fossils were "land"? WTF?
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 10:36 am
Posted on 12/16/14 at 10:34 am to mizzoukills
I don't know that I can do that, and I really did not mean to imply that. It just seems incredible that the government would take this tack given how the Institute and it's people were portrayed.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 10:44 am to SoGaFan
They appeared to make it clear that the intent was to display it in their home area all along. What they were really robbed of was the opportunity to complete a piece of work that is any paleontologist's lifelong dream. No value can be placed upon that. The passion these guys had for their work was evident. To be deprived of that is the real crime here.
What kind of work are you currently involved in? I wish I had gone into archeology or paleontology. When I was young it was a tossup between herpetology and dentistry, and I went with the money. But after I got into my 40s, I find myself admiring archeology more and more. I think it is something I truly would have enjoyed.
What kind of work are you currently involved in? I wish I had gone into archeology or paleontology. When I was young it was a tossup between herpetology and dentistry, and I went with the money. But after I got into my 40s, I find myself admiring archeology more and more. I think it is something I truly would have enjoyed.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 11:18 am to 911Moto
quote:I often wonder if i should have done it.
I wish I had gone into archeology or paleontology. When I was young it was a tossup between herpetology and dentistry, and I went with the money. But after I got into my 40s, I find myself admiring archeology more and more. I think it is something I truly would have enjoyed
Posted on 12/16/14 at 11:20 am to AlxTgr
I would've loved it, but it is a financially unrewarding career...unless you sell T-Rex bones for $8 million.
How often does that happen?
Once.
How often does that happen?
Once.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 12:55 pm to mizzoukills
I watched this the other night, and checked for a thread on here but there wasn't one.
I really enjoyed the documentary.
Interesting story for sure, but I tend to fall in between the government and the scientists though.
The biggest thing that baffled me was the ruling that the t-Rex bones were "land" and thus fell under the caveat that Maurice Williams couldn't sell something that wasn't his to sell. Which made that transaction of $5,000 null and void. However, for MW to end up back with the bones and be able to sell them anyway was laughable. So he couldn't sell them the first time around because it wasn't his to sell and he hadn't gotten the government's permission, but the second time he could and they signed off on it? Doesn't make much sense outside of an arm of the government trying to make an example out of some scientists.
The thing that bothered me though, and why I fall in between the government and the scientists is because their "excuses" for "not knowing" where they were seemed shady at best. They claim no GPS (which is fine), but then pretend like things weren't mapped back then, and mapped pretty well. They knew it was on MW's land, and he knew what he was doing (per some of the interviewees)...but it seemed to me like they intentionally short-changed him with the $5,000. They kept saying over and over that it was the most anybody had spent on bones up to that point, but they knew what they had found would be worth FAR more than that. I dunno, it just sort of rubbed me the wrong way the way the scientists kept explaining their side...clearly the documentary was slanted toward them almost completely.
That being said, I do think that the amount of evidence they had from the original sale (the check, MW on camera, etc.) should've been enough to make their case, but the government went above and beyond to make examples of them, and even fricked a couple of them in the end into serving jail time.
Just a shitty situation all around, and I'm glad it eventually landed in a public museum. Good for McDonalds and Disney for ponying up the cash to make sure that happened. I wonder who the other last bidder was, and if it was for a private collection...
I really enjoyed the documentary.
Interesting story for sure, but I tend to fall in between the government and the scientists though.
The biggest thing that baffled me was the ruling that the t-Rex bones were "land" and thus fell under the caveat that Maurice Williams couldn't sell something that wasn't his to sell. Which made that transaction of $5,000 null and void. However, for MW to end up back with the bones and be able to sell them anyway was laughable. So he couldn't sell them the first time around because it wasn't his to sell and he hadn't gotten the government's permission, but the second time he could and they signed off on it? Doesn't make much sense outside of an arm of the government trying to make an example out of some scientists.
The thing that bothered me though, and why I fall in between the government and the scientists is because their "excuses" for "not knowing" where they were seemed shady at best. They claim no GPS (which is fine), but then pretend like things weren't mapped back then, and mapped pretty well. They knew it was on MW's land, and he knew what he was doing (per some of the interviewees)...but it seemed to me like they intentionally short-changed him with the $5,000. They kept saying over and over that it was the most anybody had spent on bones up to that point, but they knew what they had found would be worth FAR more than that. I dunno, it just sort of rubbed me the wrong way the way the scientists kept explaining their side...clearly the documentary was slanted toward them almost completely.
That being said, I do think that the amount of evidence they had from the original sale (the check, MW on camera, etc.) should've been enough to make their case, but the government went above and beyond to make examples of them, and even fricked a couple of them in the end into serving jail time.
Just a shitty situation all around, and I'm glad it eventually landed in a public museum. Good for McDonalds and Disney for ponying up the cash to make sure that happened. I wonder who the other last bidder was, and if it was for a private collection...
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:39 pm to CocomoLSU
Well, they thought they had a chance with about 1/7 of what it took at auction. That part did not bother me at all. MW had plenty of time to research values, and was clearly fine with $5K. I hope he had to pay that back.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:43 pm to UL-SabanRival
quote:well there was no Charles Remington. The Colonel did it all.
Yeah, I enjoyed it, and it stayed pretty true to reality, for a Hollywood movie. They really did kill that many people, confound the traps and other attempts to kill them.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:45 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
MW had plenty of time to research values, and was clearly fine with $5K. I hope he had to pay that back.
Did the documentary ever state whether or not he was required to pay that back to the institute?
Posted on 12/16/14 at 2:29 pm to mizzoukills
Not that I saw.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 2:45 pm to AlxTgr
that doesn't make sense. If the courts determined the sale was null and void, he should've been required to reimburse the scientists their $5,000 payment.
Afterall, he was on film accepting the payment.
Afterall, he was on film accepting the payment.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 2:46 pm to mizzoukills
He may have. I just don't think they covered that.
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